Looking at a 23' and 25' O'Day. What to look for?

Technodad · Sep 21, 2012

Hi Ward
My wife and I have spent nearly two weeks this summer marina hopping in our 23, we find it great for two adults especially since we sleep in the main cabin, this leaves the V berth for storage or, in your case your two puppies.
The 25 would have a bit more room inside but with me it is the length of my driveway that limits me to the 23 and also ease of trailering and launching single handed. My boat is ideal for us and we have no intentions of getting anything bigger. This will be our last boat so we are fixing her up good.
You would be very pleased with a 23 and even more so with a 25 if you can handle the extra size.

This is us for 3 nights in Toronto (Toronto Islands)

Gaf · Sep 21, 2012

Hi Ward. When you go to look at boats, take along a bright flashlight, and either a screw driver or small plastic mallet. In the case of either the 23'or 25' O'Days, while on deck you want to tap around the area where the chain plates come through the deck and the area under the mast. These are two prime areas for water intrusion, if you notice a difference in sound as you tap, you may assume there is a problem. This isn't the end of the world however, and if you are handy, it can be repaired. Another area is inside the cabin, where the chain plates bolt to the main bulkheads. Using the same tapping method, check the bulkheads. These to can be replaced and are not necessarilly a show stopper. Take a look at the rudder and transome also, the rudders on the 23' have had some problems and you want to be aware. Don't let this discourage you, both are excellent boats, and would serve you well. I hope that this has helped you some, good luck in your search.

Joe11688 · Sep 21, 2012

If I had my choice I'd spring for the O'Day 23 over the 25 and this would be a personal decision because I do a lot of single handing with my O'Day 222. Don't get me wrong. I think the O'Day 25s are great boats, but they have too much free-board to suit me especially where I too have a dog who is my personal boat companion.

We have a couple of O'Day 25s at the club and I've tried boarding them at the mooring from my kayak and believe me, it's not that easy. I really doubt if my dog could jump up into an O'Day 25 as easy as she can jump into my O'Day 222 and she only weighs around 40 lbs. I just can't imagine having to lift a heavier dog into a 25. I'd either capsize the tender or throw my back out.
I have no idea what the free-board comparison is between these two boats. I'm sure that Technodad would know and if so, maybe he can chime in on this subject. As an avid dog lover myself, I think that this is so very important.
Personally, O'Day 222 is the only boat I'll ever need because I sail alone with my dog a good percentage of the time and with that said, you may want to go a little larger. I believe that the O'Day 23 is going to be a good compromise between the 222 and the 25.

I have no trouble sailing up to our YC "T" dock by myself under the Mainsail. I've done this so many time that I'm getting good at it. I can step right off my boat and on to the dock with both lines in my hands and tie her off. Some boats are so high off the dock that you'd trip and break your neck if you tried that.

The point that I bring up is so important to me and I think that you should consider it very carefully before you make your final choice.
Good Luck!
Joe

Indysailor · Sep 21, 2012

I'm not sure if all the 25s have travelers, but it's a nice addition and one that was never included on the earlier 23s. I believe later ones had a traveler option.
Generally, I find the 23 to be a perfect boat for me and the missus- it's comfy, forgiving and I would agree with what I've often read about it that it has a big boat feel. We don't overnight much on it, but when we have it has been very nice as long as you're only 5-9 like me. The galley is not real great, and some of the slide out configurations were better than others, but they work all right for a couple nights. I rebuilt my sink and tank, but have considered on more than one occasion how much work it would be to convert the galley on my boat to a more permanent type, like you will see on a 25. To me, that is a real difference because a permanently mounted galley just seems to feel more "cruiser" like, and probably offers better storage for cooking utensils and the like.

I have not sailed a 25, but from looking at some, I see that the deck is raised a little more, so that the head room is a little more generous. Not standing, but I believe better than what you will get with a 23. Also, of course, it's heavier and longer, probably will withstand a little more wind than the 23. I really enjoy sailing my 23- it's got a light helm, but does tend to round up in a puff, which gives me confidence that the boat is designed to be safe.

All boats with bulkhead mounted chainplates are going to have issues with water intrusion, and after 30 years or so, you can almost guarantee that some owner along the way neglected the work. You should look for softness in the bulkheads and check around the bottom parts of them because that's where water collects. This is not a deal breaker because replacing the bulkheads is not difficult, but if you can make a choice between one with a lot of damage and one with little, you will thank yourself for knowing what to look for.
A couple of drains are also notorious for problems- the cockpit and the anchor locker. I really think the cockpit drain is a dumb configuration, a hose that connects the cockpit drain to an aft through hull, so that if it fails, the water goes into the bilge. I would rather they had just put a drain directly through the transom at the floor of the cockpit, like you see on other boats (Cat 22, I think).

If you buy an O'Day, you'll be happy to know about D&R Marine, and lucky to have this group of sailors to lean on. Great knowledge and experience here, and I can't think of one topic that someone probably hasn't dealt with or that Joe (Trinkka) hasn't documented with a photograph.

Chris Bogle · Sep 21, 2012

Trinkka said:
If I had my choice I'd spring for the O'Day 23 over the 25 and this would be a personal decision because I do a lot of single handing with my O'Day 222. Don't get me wrong. I think the O'Day 25s are great boats, but they have too much free-board to suit me especially where I too have a dog who is my personal boat companion.

We have a couple of O'Day 25s at the club and I've tried boarding them at the mooring from my kayak and believe me, it's not that easy. I really doubt if my dog could jump up into an O'Day 25 as easy as she can jump into my O'Day 222 and she only weighs around 40 lbs. I just can't imagine having to lift a heavier dog into a 25. I'd either capsize the tender or throw my back out.
I have no idea what the free-board comparison is between these two boats. I'm sure that Technodad would know and if so, maybe he can chime in on this subject. As an avid dog lover myself, I think that this is so very important.
Personally, O'Day 222 is the only boat I'll ever need because I sail alone with my dog a good percentage of the time and with that said, you may want to go a little larger. I believe that the O'Day 23 is going to be a good compromise between the 222 and the 25.

I have no trouble sailing up to our YC "T" dock by myself under the Mainsail. I've done this so many time that I'm getting good at it. I can step right off my boat and on to the dock with both lines in my hands and tie her off. Some boats are so high off the dock that you'd trip and break your neck if you tried that.

The point that I bring up is so important to me and I think that you should consider it very carefully before you make your final choice.
Good Luck!
Joe

Nice pics Joe. The dog looks well behaved, trained which is important.

hman · Sep 21, 2012

If the boats are in the water, you might want to check how easy the centerboards go up and down. If the line is chaffed, that's not too big a deal to replace, but if the fiber bushings on the centerboard are ruff and going out, they are a pain in the butt to get to and replace if all you have is the trailer to work with....Just my 2 cents...

Joe11688 · Sep 21, 2012

Chris Bogle said:
Nice pics Joe. The dog looks well behaved, trained which is important.

She's really great on the boat and also in the kayak Chris. Last year I caught a 31" Blue Fish out of the kayak and she was sitting in it with me and was very calm. That fish towed us all over the place.

We generally cross the Taunton river in the winter months together in that kayak and she sits nice and still all the way to the other side of the river which is about 400' across near the Somerset Fall River area.
Penny is my best pal and a great First Mate.

Joe

Joe11688 · Sep 21, 2012

Indysailor said:
I'm not sure if all the 25s have travelers, but it's a nice addition and one that was never included on the earlier 23s. I believe later ones had a traveler option.
Generally, I find the 23 to be a perfect boat for me and the missus- it's comfy, forgiving and I would agree with what I've often read about it that it has a big boat feel. We don't overnight much on it, but when we have it has been very nice as long as you're only 5-9 like me. The galley is not real great, and some of the slide out configurations were better than others, but they work all right for a couple nights. I rebuilt my sink and tank, but have considered on more than one occasion how much work it would be to convert the galley on my boat to a more permanent type, like you will see on a 25. To me, that is a real difference because a permanently mounted galley just seems to feel more "cruiser" like, and probably offers better storage for cooking utensils and the like.

I have not sailed a 25, but from looking at some, I see that the deck is raised a little more, so that the head room is a little more generous. Not standing, but I believe better than what you will get with a 23. Also, of course, it's heavier and longer, probably will withstand a little more wind than the 23. I really enjoy sailing my 23- it's got a light helm, but does tend to round up in a puff, which gives me confidence that the boat is designed to be safe.

All boats with bulkhead mounted chainplates are going to have issues with water intrusion, and after 30 years or so, you can almost guarantee that some owner along the way neglected the work. You should look for softness in the bulkheads and check around the bottom parts of them because that's where water collects. This is not a deal breaker because replacing the bulkheads is not difficult, but if you can make a choice between one with a lot of damage and one with little, you will thank yourself for knowing what to look for.
A couple of drains are also notorious for problems- the cockpit and the anchor locker. I really think the cockpit drain is a dumb configuration, a hose that connects the cockpit drain to an aft through hull, so that if it fails, the water goes into the bilge. I would rather they had just put a drain directly through the transom at the floor of the cockpit, like you see on other boats (Cat 22, I think).

If you buy an O'Day, you'll be happy to know about D&R Marine, and lucky to have this group of sailors to lean on. Great knowledge and experience here, and I can't think of one topic that someone probably hasn't dealt with or that Joe (Trinkka) hasn't documented with a photograph.

If you ever get a chance to check out an early model O'Day 23 like a 1973, you'll fall in love with the galley arrangement as I have. The sink and stove cabinets are on the Port side and the dinette which has a table that folds down to a quarter birth, is on the Starboard side. I would have loved to have this set up on my boat. Keep your eyes peeled for one of these boats and ask the owner if you can see the cabin interior. These boats may have had keel issues back then which were later addressed, but they should have never changed that galley arrangement.

Indysailor · Sep 21, 2012

Trinkka said:
If you ever get a chance to check out an early model O'Day 23 like a 1973, you'll fall in love with the galley arrangement as I have. The sink and stove cabinets are on the Port side and the dinette which has a table that folds down to a quarter birth, is on the Starboard side. I would have loved to have this set up on my boat. Keep your eyes peeled for one of these boats and ask the owner if you can see the cabin interior. These boats may have had keel issues back then which were later addressed, but they should have never changed that galley arrangement.

With that pop top, it looks a lot more comfortable for overnighting!

Joe11688 · Sep 21, 2012

I don't care much for pop tops but I do love that galley arrangement with the dinette on the other side.
The mast on the pop top O'Day 23 can present a big problem for trailering.
Also, having the winch with wire cable for the centerboard mounted on that table stanchion isn't too appealing. The early model O'Day 25s are also set up this way. The cockpit companionway step is a better location for the centerboard pendant line, I think.
I believe that a good cabinet maker or anyone with some good woodworking skills could change the galley arrangement in a later model O'Day 23. I don't care much for the slide out galleys on some of these later model sloops. My friend's Seaward 22 is set up with a slide out stove under a quarter birth. To him, this is a good thing because he doesn't do overnighters and he would never cook in his boat anyway. His boat is as clean as a whistle and he takes great pains to keep it that way.
My boat on the other hand looks like a cyclone hit it. I have remnants in my cabin from everything I've ever cooked through the years like pizzas, Blue Fish, chicken pot pies, cakes, muffins, hot dogs You name it and I cooked it. I can honestly say one thing about my boat. It looks used and I intend to keep her that way.

Wayne Steinhour · Sep 21, 2012

Ward,

I just bought a 23 a couple of years ago. I agree with the other comments about checking around the chainplates. I discovered some deck rot around one of mine this spring. I was able to do the repair myself, so it was not the end of the world. My boat still had the original plastic thru-hulls, which were getting pretty brittle. I replaced them all with stainless steel (bronze for the cockpit drain in the transom). A pretty easy do-it-yourself job.

Two things that I didn't consider enough when I bought are the condition of the sails and the outboard. Pay close attention to these because they are not cheap to replace.

We are really happy with our 23. It's got enough room for 2 (and we can squeeze our 2 kids in as well). It's pretty easy to sail, but it is a bit of a pain to launch. And we are always running into other O'Day owners and former owners, so that adds to the fun.

Good luck with whatever you decide on.

Wayne

Ritdog · Sep 22, 2012

Boy, all I can say is that the 23 must be a great boat - The wife and I have a 25 and love it- the freeboard is a bit high, but has not been a problem. We weekend in the islands in Maine around Portland, and have a great time.
I would replace the sink through-hull if it is the original- that hose situation is nuts. We are doing ours when we pull out this fall. Also, the drain hole is a bit small, and tends to plug up with sea growth. I got a 1/2" brush on a 3 foot flexible handle to ream the drain out. I added a ferrule and brass union from home depot with a NPT plug on top. The top is JUST above the waterline so I can remove the plug with no water intrusion.
If you are putting the boat on jack stands keep them in tight to the keel front and back , or use 2 more for just the stern - I have seen reports of 25s cracking in the companionway bottom (mine did all the way across) due to some kind of stress from support in the stern and not close enough to the keel.
We bought a benzene chafing dish stove for cooking, single burner, (like you would see at at a wedding making omlettes) , and LOVE it - much hotter than propane, you just clip the can in, lock it in, and turn the knob. It's just perfect.
My one complaint is the V berth. We are both 5'7", and I am always banging my feet on the wifes. I have taken to sleeping on the settee in a bag - not as "comfy and cozy" , but I do get some sleep. We have fleece sheets Karen made to fit the cushions, and they are warm and snuggly.
I am replacing all the original wire lights with LEDs this winter. We have a rollable Powerfilm 600 solar panel hanging off snaps inside one of the ports for charging of the two-battery system I put in, and it works like a champ. The lighting wiring on our 9.9 outboard crapped out in July, so it has been a lifesaver....
We like the room, it's a little rolly in swells at anchor, is a stable sailer, and moves well. Been up to 7.1 in a good wind, have done 4.7 for 3 hours with just the jib in a 15-20 knot wind.
You will love her. Do your maintenance!

Ritdog · Sep 22, 2012

posted twice- sorry!

Joe11688 · Sep 22, 2012

Ward H said:
Drum roll please......... We bought the 25' O'Day! Before we left this morning I read this thread one more time. Took my tools with me and looked at the 23 first. The cockpit and cabin were just too small for the Admiral and myself. We aren't huge but we aren't small either. We are too old and rusty for that size cabin. Boat did not have a lot going for it either.

Moved down the stree to the 25'er. First thing I noticed was how much nicer the glass was. No spider cracks anyway, found only one small chip on the deck. Cabin was huge!. We can easily spend weekends and longer in there. Cusions, wall fabric, everthing was clean. Lockers? Clean. Under berth compartments? clean. Bilge? Clean. This guy took care of the boat.
The bulkheads showed some sign of water staining at one point but they were solid so the leak must have been fixed quickly.

Mast step desk area was also solid.

Motor is a bit finicky to start and sails will need replacing at some point but that is in the budget. In fact Admiral says to order new outboard now. If we get stuck out on the water with no wind and no outboard because I bought someone else's problem OB, I might as well swim back.

The CB is stuck in the up position but I am not too worried about that after reading some threads on it. Before the sale is final I am having the boat pulled for hull inspection and will check it then.

The freeboard is higher on this boat so dogs will have to wear their PFDs while on deck and I am going to rig a haul system that attaches to the boom and can be hooked to their PFDs so I can haul them out.
I'm also going to run safety netting around the lifelines. Saw it on another boat which had two german sheppards on it. Looked like a good idea.

Cockpit benches are very comfortable.

Not a whole lot needs to be done to get sailing. I have the slip for the rest of the season, which should run into Nov. We are pretty excited and are looking forward to getting her out on the water.

Thanks for all your help!

Congrats on the purchase of the 25. It sounds like you've got a plan to make this boat work for you. The O'Day 25 is an excellent boat for a couple and I'm sure that you're going to enjoy sailing it. Good Luck!
Joe

OdayDave · Sep 22, 2012

Ward -

I haven't sailed the 23 but I owned a 222 and now a 25. I sailed the 222 for 10 years and it was a great boat. I would spend a week on it each summer and while it was a little tight with 2 people, it was still comfortable. I do appreciate the extra standing room in the 25, the head and the fact that it is a bit less tender than the 222 on Lake Michigan. You will need a bulletproof mast raising system. I could do the 222 by myself. Not so with the 25. I always have a couple of people helping me out when I raise and lower the mast. The freeboard is a little higher but I've been able to adapt to getting on board from an inflatable kayak. This is an excellent forum for getting answers about the boat. Enjoy the remainder of the season.

Dave
s/v Lagniappe
O'Day 25

Indysailor · Sep 23, 2012

You be a lot happier with a new motor. Every minute spent fighting an old outboard is a minute less sailing. Congratulations on the boat!

emergpa1 · Sep 23, 2012

Yahoo! Good job, I have a 26, which is nearly the same and love it. To see my album when I restored her , go to my profile page and check out the album on rebuilding my o'day 26. You will see some of the problem areas you should keep an eye on.
I bought my long shaft tahatsu 6 hp outboard from an online outboard dealer in Tennessee. I don't have the exact website handy but can get it of you need it.
You will love the 25 I'm sure.

Technodad · Sep 24, 2012

Hey Ward
Congratulations on getting the 25, great choice, it sounds like a really nice boat, I'm sure you are going to get lots of enjoyment getting her just how you want her.

John

Looking at a 23' and 25' O'Day. What to look for?

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