Looking at 1976 Catalina 27

RoyS · Mar 1, 2016

You can do better for that money. Keep looking.

Scott T-Bird · Mar 1, 2016

If you look for comparable Catalina 27's for sale, it's in the ball park. There should be room for negotiation. Why not start at about $7,000? If the engine is in fine running condition, I would guess $7,500 would be a fair value. It sounds like your describing average to below-average condition (based on description of sails and standing rigging). If standing rigging is really 40 years old, you should want to replace it right away - possibly including the life lines. You'll do the same with the sails, so that number is going to be $3,500 to $5,000 within your first year of ownership depending on what you or the surveyor finds.
You should have a survey performed and it should be short-hauled for inspection. Does the marina have that capability? You'll need to pay for that. The water in the bilge isn't particularly troubling. If it isn't cared for very well, it is likely a little bit of rain-water leakage. But it could also be a bit of stuffing box leakage as well. Neither would bother me for a 40 year-old boat. It's good that you describe solid decks, that's on the plus side. You can sail a boat that is not perfect very happily for a long time ... I have. But you may also find an emotional need to fix as many of the defects that you can. You will also need to determine if there are any defects that have to be fixed for safety reasons, and either account for that in the price or walk-away. There are no shortcuts in that regard.
Owning an old boat like that is not going to be cheap after you pay the purchase price. The list of upgrades will be long and expensive. How much attention does the bottom need? That could cost another 2 boats (break out another thousand ... in sailor-speak

). It would not take a lot to spend far more on her than the initial purchase price. Do you want furling-reefing head sail? Does she have it? How functional is it? Replacing parts is all do-able, but the cost can be much higher than you are probably anticipating.
You can make of it what you want. It's a good boat and worth the endeavor. It sounds like it is worth some negotiation, but keep shopping in the meantime!

Jackdaw · Mar 1, 2016

Buy the BEST condition boat you can. That's a rule for everyone unless that person likes to tinker with boats more than they like sailing.

Buy the best; that's double-true for you because you really don't know what you are getting yourself into.

Go find a good boat, buy it from an owner who has taken pride in the boat and proud shows you how well he's taken care of it. You'll never regret it, and it's much better value for money.

Kopite · Mar 1, 2016

I'd agree with Roy, that this price high. My '84 in great shape with roller furling, autopilot and a full set of good canvas ( sails incl. Aspin and dodger etc) was acquired ( after quite some searching) in late 2014 for $7,500. Around here at least, based on other boats I looked at, the boat you describe would pull sub $5k.
In itself, some water in the bilge is normal as the shaft seal leakage ends up there, and if the owner is not careful with the oil changes any spill will be there too. It is for sure an indication of the previous owners level of care - my bilge is never like that.. Would be worth cleaning it up and looking again after a day or so to see if it comes back.
My main concern would be the keel stub. I believe that it has a wooden core as does my '84, and sitting with water in the bilge has probably resulted in the wood getting wet/rotten over time, so you really should check for a " Catalina smile" at the keel/keel stub joint. It might even be that a keel leak, coming up around the bolt, is what is filling the bilge.
In general, I'm very happy with my 27. It's a great boat and the parts availability and the ability to call the factory for advice make it even better.
Good luck with your search..
Andrew

Donnybrook · Mar 1, 2016

Assuming the engine runs great, then sub $5k sounds about right for a boat that old.

Ward H · Mar 1, 2016

Jackdaw said:
Go find a good boat, buy it from an owner who has taken pride in the boat and proud shows you how well he's taken care of it. You'll never regret it, and it's much better value for money.

Very good advice. Bought my first boat, 17', for a $1,000. Ended up putting $2,000 into it, then realized it wasn't big enough. Lost a 1/3 of my costs but it was a learning lesson and taught us we really did like sailing. Second boat was a very good deal. Very clean, fresh bottom paint but almost no upgrades except for roller reefing jib. $3,800. But when pulled for the 1st winter and it dried out the bottom paint flaked off and I had to have it soda blasted. Then the motor acted up and Admiral required a new OB. Then I worried about standing rigging so I replaced that. I could go on but suffice it to say that after multiples of the initial outlay it is about where I want it.
I did spread out those costs over a three year period but now I know that if I go looking for another boat I need to remember Jackdaw's advice. I might even have it tattooed on my arm so I don't forget.

kito · Mar 1, 2016

A boat that hasn't been hauled out in 8 years is a good indication of an owner that don't give a sheet. Btw, I seen a beautiful newly restored Hunter 27 Cherubini on Ebay listed at $8,000 or best offer. He dropped it to $5600 buy it now a few weeks ago. Such a shame these Cherubini's don't fetch more money.

weinie · Mar 1, 2016

I bought an '87 27 several years back for 7K.

Over the years I ended up replacing EVERYTHING on it....sails, running rigging, life lines, cushions, autopilot, toilet, faucets, hoses, stripping bottom paint, propane stove, teak refinishing, engine work, bilge, water and macerator pumps, electrical rewiring, vhf, gps, engine gauges, etc etc etc. Probably ran me about 20K but when I was done several years later, I had a boat that probably could've gotten 15-18K for it had I sold it privately and not traded it in. She was absolutely beautiful and I was sad to part with her. It was actually a very tough decision to trader her in for a bigger, newer boat.

It was a lot of work but I enjoyed it and I learned a boat load. My original intentions were to just to keep a piece of junk boat to tool around with and sit and drink beer on, but I really got into it!

If you add the numbers up, you'll see I lost money and would've been better off just buying a boat already in good to great condtion. However, fixing up my catalina was a something I enjoyed and took pride in. So there's that.

PSR · Mar 8, 2016

My '81 C27 cost $5500 in 2013. She was advertised as an '83!, which goes to show how much the POs and I knew about the boat. Getting her to Antioch, California, in very high winds and very rough water with what I now know was a truly marginal engine and drive train, was a risk I won't forget. After 5 months in a shop, after complete restoration of the hull below the waterline, restoration of the Universal 5411, newer transmission, new coupling, shaft, and etc., new sails, and a very long list of other items, my boat is in very safe condition, and is almost the best cared for and nicest looking boat in the marina. The total cost has been around $40k, and this is a bit over the rule of thumb $1000/foot to make an old boat truly safe and sound and reasonably equal to a new one. The initial price was too high, especially given the terrible condition of the drive train-and the engine ran seemingly very well. She also looked pretty good superficially. The POs had advertised her for $12,500!!
I think the 27 is the right size, rig, and design for me as a 70 yr old single hander, and a new boat of that size would have cost 2x to 3x as much, which is why I kept shelling out the boat units for restoration. Now she is safe & sound, although there are always projects to do.
That's my story so far. I have to second weinie's message. There has been some anxiety but also a lot of pleasure and satisfaction in making a good old boat into a very good old boat, even though I wish I had started with a better baseline.
If your target C27 were in the Bay Area today, she would be worth around $3500 at most in my opinion, and the owners would be lucky to get that much. The initial price is not a large part of what you should spend on her, in any case.

LeoLambert310 · Mar 8, 2016

In Campbell River BC there's a Catalina 27 (1977) for sale, asking price $5000 or $3500 usd and I know that a C28 was sold for less than $5800 last year.

Stu Jackson · Mar 8, 2016

PSR's advice is very good. Beware inboard C27s, not that there's anything wrong with any of the engines that were installed, even the A4. Main reason, unless PSR can prove me wrong, is access to the stuffing box is horrible.

Otherwise, great boats.

Joe · Mar 8, 2016

Gavin, I may be a little late on posting this comment... but I recommend you go to www.catalina27.org and check out the documentation and such that has been posted for this very popular boat. Over the years, Cat 27 owners have compiled a list of necessary upgrades and refits that address some of the boat's design and manufacturing issues. With this list you can check that the previous owners have addressed these known problems.
The chainplate issue is common.... as is the lower shrouds' deck connection. The good news is that there are kits available from Catalina factory and a vendor called Catalina Direct that can easily address them...

When I bought my boat, I specifically checked for these retrofits.

The Catalina factory customer service dept was very helpful when I bought my 23 year old boat in 1999, and actually sent me a packet including the aforementioned list, an owner's manual plus a number of other documents... you can find all of this and more on the association website.... free. Good luck.

philwsailz · Mar 8, 2016

Stu Jackson said:
PSR's advice is very good. Beware inboard C27s, not that there's anything wrong with any of the engines that were installed, even the A4. Main reason, unless PSR can prove me wrong, is access to the stuffing box is horrible.

Otherwise, great boats.

Stuffing box is more easily accessed than motor mounts! Starting alignment of my old A4 to new shaft and coupling. Licking knuckle wounds as j go...

Aladave · Mar 11, 2016

Hello Guys, I just joined your forum, I'm a new owner of an old sailboat. Wish I would have found it a few weeks ago before buying a 1976 Catalina 27. The boats in pretty good condition but obviously was neglected for a while. The Atomic 4 dies at low idle. among other things, and I have been advised by 2 mechanics not to spend any money on it and to get an outboard. So, I found a Yamaha 8 HP long shaft motor in good condition. Do you think that is enough power for this boat. It need a mounting bracket, fixed or adjustable? Any suggestions?

Stu Jackson · Mar 11, 2016

Aladave said:
Hello Guys, I just joined your forum, I'm a new owner of an old sailboat. Wish I would have found it a few weeks ago before buying a 1976 Catalina 27. The boats in pretty good condition but obviously was neglected for a while. The Atomic 4 dies at low idle. among other things, and I have been advised by 2 mechanics not to spend any money on it and to get an outboard. So, I found a Yamaha 8 HP long shaft motor in good condition. Do you think that is enough power for this boat. It need a mounting bracket, fixed or adjustable? Any suggestions?

You may have been somewhat premature in getting an outboard if you haven't investigated the information available at Moyer marine. They know everything about A4s.

Any outboard should have an adjustable bracket unless your boat has the well, which I doubt if it was an inboard.

weinie · Mar 11, 2016

You're gonna need a few more ponies to move that boat especially against any wind or current.

philwsailz · Mar 11, 2016

Aladave said:
Hello Guys, I just joined your forum, I'm a new owner of an old sailboat. Wish I would have found it a few weeks ago before buying a 1976 Catalina 27. The boats in pretty good condition but obviously was neglected for a while. The Atomic 4 dies at low idle. among other things, and I have been advised by 2 mechanics not to spend any money on it and to get an outboard. So, I found a Yamaha 8 HP long shaft motor in good condition. Do you think that is enough power for this boat. It need a mounting bracket, fixed or adjustable? Any suggestions?

I agree with Stu and weinie. Find out as best you can what the issues with the A4 are. It may be as simple as changing fuel filter to get it running reliably. That's a start anyway. Consider at minimum a raw water impeller. Moyer is your go-to for all questions, answers, and parts.

Regarding your 8-horse... Hopefully you didn't buy it, as it IS too small. Consider a 15 or 18 as a minimum.

If you go outboard, get an electric-starting motor and add remote helm controls. Make sure you have an outboard motor mount sized for your motor too.

What's the price to go outboard? The right-size motor, with controls, tank and mount may run you $2-grand or more. Thats a lot of A4 dollars.... Hint hint.

For mechanics who don't know the A4, all they see is an old motor. They won't work on them as they don't know how. They want to sell you sonething they are familiar with...

An A4 that is maintained is super simple and reliable. Think old tractor motor, as that is what it is. A poorly maintained one can gave multiples of issues, but most of the time you can fix it with some patience, a few specialized bolt on replacement parts and a half gallon of Marvel Mystery Oil. I'm not kidding...