Lift keel design of 323, 31, and 311

[prroots]

I'm considering the purchase of one of the subject boats and would like to find diagrams showing how the lift keel operates. Can anyone provide links?

I'm downsizing from a 411! Thanks

 

[reworb]

Here's a maintenance diagram which shows how it works in a 311 and also a larger drawing

 

[prroots]

Here's a maintenance diagram which shows how it works in a 311 and also a larger drawing

Thanks that helps. Can anyone summarize the differences between these 3 models. I'd especially like to hear about any features that are available in the newer models (eg, 31) that would be missing from the older models (eg, 311).

 

[reworb]

I don't know all the details but the major differences between the 31 and the 311 are: The 31 is a shorter wider boat 30' 6" vs 31' 3" hull length, 11' 1" vs 10' 6" beam. The 31 is also heavier 10,692 lbs vs 7716 lbs displacement. The 31 draws more water with the board up 3' 1" vs 2' 7". The mast height above the water is the same on both boats, the headsail on the 31 is a 105% vs 116% on the 311. The 31 has a larger engine ( 21 hp vs 18 hp)and carries alot more fuel (almost double) but the 311 carries more water

 

[Ron20324]

I bought my 323 mainly because I could stand up in the VEE cabin without opening the hatch, the 12 volt fridge, and the reason I bought the 323- not the 343- was the head. One of the first ladies I had on the boat said, "that's not a HEAD, that's a BATHROOM. My 2006 has wood panels in the salon, but later models had vinyl, like the cabins.

 

[prroots]

Thanks reworb and Ron20324 for the replies. They're helpful. I'm still trying to get a feel for pros and cons of these 3 models. I haven't yet found the headroom of 31 nor the weight of ballast on the lift keel version of the 31. Speaking of ballast, where is it located since I understand that the primary ballast is not in the lifting keel? So far I do prefer the draft of the 311 (2-5) compared to the 323 (2-7) and esp. the 31 (3-1). It would be nice to find the PHRF numbers for all 3 in the lift keel configuration. So far I do see the New England 323 lift keel of 159 which seems pretty respectable. The 311 and 31 numbers don't specify keel configuration so it's hard to compare apples to apples. Another issue is that there are relatively few lift keel versions available for any of the 3 models so it may be a matter of what's available when we're ready to jump. We do favor recent vs older with the hopes of minimizing the amount of work required which tends to favor the 31. Of course, the degree of care taken by owner is equally important. Has anyone else compared these models?

 

[reworb]

My understanding that the design of the keel is the same on all of them, the size maybe different but it's the same design. It's not really a lifting keel. It's a winged keel center board combination. The ballast is the winged keel although the board (in mine) is about 700lbs I think. I would be happy to take a picture of mine (I keep it on boat lift behind the house).

 

[prroots]

My understanding that the design of the keel is the same on all of them, the size maybe different but it's the same design. It's not really a lifting keel. It's a winged keel center board combination. The ballast is the winged keel although the board (in mine) is about 700lbs I think. I would be happy to take a picture of mine (I keep it on boat lift behind the house).

Thanks. Are you saying that the ballast is in the box which houses the board? If so, what is the ballast made of?

 

[reworb]

Cast Iron. It's not a box, the Board exits thru a slot at the bottom of the winged keel. The wing keel is all cast iron as is the board. Imagine a shallow winged keel with the addition of a centerboard that exits in the middle of of that keel

 

[CptnRn]

Here's a maintenance diagram which shows how it works in a 311 and also a larger drawing

I wonder if there were different variations of the swing keel version. This Ben 311 brochure link below on page 5 has two photos showing a short wing keel that is wider at the bottom than it is at the top, while the second drawing above "appears" to shows a keel that is wider at the top. http://beneteau.sailboatowners.com/dl/downloads.php?task=model&mid=217&model=311

 

[reworb]

I wonder if there were different variations of the swing keel version. This Ben 311 brochure link below on page 5 has two photos showing a short wing keel that is wider at the bottom than it is at the top, while the second drawing above "appears" to shows a keel that is wider at the top. http://beneteau.sailboatowners.com/dl/downloads.php?task=model&mid=217&model=311

The picture in the brochure is exactly like my keel. Before I bought mine I looked other 311s all different years all out of the water and the keels were all the same. I didn't look at ones that were the first ones made so maybe the very late 1990s were different I don't know, I think they started making the boat in around 1997 (mines a 2004)

If you mean the drawings I posted both drawings are documents that came with my boat.

 

[prroots]

Thank you reworb and CptnRn. Is there a cable involved between the screw mechanism and lift keel or is a solid connection? What happens when one goes hard aground and thus creates a large upward pressure on lift keel (ie, is there a sacrificial element)? On our Wauquiez Hood 38 there was a cable so the centerboard would just swing up creating slack in the cable. It made a very good depth sounder!

 

[reworb]

I don't know if there is cable or solid connection. I have the maintenance done by a yard, nor can I decipher that from the manual.

Never ran aground with this boat I only put the keel down in deep water. Frankly we sail all the time with it fully retracted and the boat sails really well. Only ever put it down when we are really hard on the wind and then not all the way down.

 

[prroots]

Thanks again reworb. We plan to do gunk-holing in the Florida keys so will probably be raising and lowering keel frequently. It's nice to know she sails well with the keel up. We'll most likely end up with a 323 since the only 311 with lift keel that's available is a 2001 and we would like a more recent vintage. Also the 31's are likely outside of our budget. I'm working on the assumption right now that the keel design is similar on 311, 323, and 31.

I see you're on the West coast of FL. I'm totally unfamiliar with that side. Are there good cruising grounds over there for a boat with draft of your 311? Here on the East coast there are precious few legal anchorages nearby Stuart, FL

 

[reworb]

Lots of places for shallow draft here, the water is skinny but the 311 fits most places. Ft Myers Beach has both anchorage and a mooring field. Naples has anchorage. Pine Island Sound is beautiful to explore (although I end up motoring cause I'm not real familiar and end up staying in the ICW and that's hard to sail in). Charlotte Harbor has plenty of places to go and anchor especially around Cayo Costa State, Park Pelican Bay anchorage. You can head all the way up Charlotte harbor to Punta Gorda. Not real familiar with Venice, Sarasota area but there are marinas there, not sure about anchorages. Lots of places to explore here and we are not so built up as the east coast so your not anchoring behind someone's house.

Trouble with anchoring as you know is powering the air conditioner, my boat has air but no generator. If I were you and like to anchor I would make sure it either has a generator or you can fit one in which ever boat you decide on. I can't imagine sleeping on the boat without air. One might fit in a 311 but I never really analysed it.

 

[CptnRn]

The picture in the brochure is exactly like my keel. Before I bought mine I looked other 311s all different years all out of the water and the keels were all the same. I didn't look at ones that were the first ones made so maybe the very late 1990s were different I don't know, I think they started making the boat in around 1997 (mines a 2004)

If you mean the drawings I posted both drawings are documents that came with my boat.

I think I was misinterpreting the drawings, the lines are a bit fuzzy. When you say the keels were the same on the boats you looked at. I assume you looked at only shoal keel versions, as my 2001 Beneteau 311 has a deep fin keel with a large bulb at the bottom. such as the example below.

 

[reworb]

I think I was misinterpreting the drawings, the lines are a bit fuzzy. When you say the keels were the same on the boats you looked at. I assume you looked at only shoal keel versions, as my 2001 Beneteau 311 has a deep fin keel with a large bulb at the bottom. such as the example below.
View attachment 118715 View attachment 118716

I only looked at centerboard boats. The short keel and twin rudder version which draws 2' 7" board up. Yours I guess draws 4' 9".

 

[prroots]

I only looked at centerboard boats. The short keel and twin rudder version which draws 2' 7" board up. Yours I guess draws 4' 9".

Yes, I too am only considering the lift keel version. I saw a 323 yesterday and hope to see a 31 on Monday. The 323 was pretty nice overall, but it had a few negatives:
1. Headroom adequate aft of compression post only (I'm 6-0)
2. Minimal room at Nav Station to add electronics
3. Engine hours 850
4. Shrouds at outer hull; expected interior for close sheeting going to windward
Comments appreciated

 

[reworb]

The 311 also has outboard shrouds attached at the toe rail, that's why the boat only came with 116% headsail. We don't race so I haven't compared it's windward performance with other boats. It's a nice sailing boat; it's not a light air flyer you really need 5kts of wind but once the wind reaches 8 kts she really comes into her own.

Personally I wouldn't be afraid of the engine hours; as long as it has been maintained. Just make an oil analysis part of the survey. My old boat was 12 years old when I sold it and it had 1250 hours and never had a problem with the engine.

 

[prroots]

The 311 also has outboard shrouds attached at the toe rail, that's why the boat only came with 116% headsail. We don't race so I haven't compared it's windward performance with other boats. It's a nice sailing boat; it's not a light air flyer you really need 5kts of wind but once the wind reaches 8 kts she really comes into her own.

Personally I wouldn't be afraid of the engine hours; as long as it has been maintained. Just make an oil analysis part of the survey. My old boat was 12 years old when I sold it and it had 1250 hours and never had a problem with the engine.

Thanks. You're right about engine hours; it all depends on care given by prior owner(s). I'm not sure how effective an oil sample is if oil has been recently changed. I was just surprised by the location of shrouds. My previous boats have been double spreader rigs which I believe allows shrouds to be brought inboard. I don't race, but I do appreciate performance. It always seems like my final destination is upwind