Lifeline Project

Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
This is just one of those nagging projects that was on the "to-do" list for far too long. A few weeks ago I finally sat down, drew up the design for the parts I wanted and sent them off.

We were sick and tired of the wire lifelines forward of the rear push pit but aft of the gate stanchion. The design was to convert those lifelines to 1" .065 wall SS tube. More comfortable to lean on, sturdier and IMHO better looking.
I was going to have my local fabricator come to the boat and fully weld this but the cost would have been quite steep. We decided against using pre-made dodger/bimini "fittings" as nothing out there looked as factory or professional as I desired. It really only required two different pieces to be made.

#1 Two gate stanchions with receiver sockets for the 1" SS tube
#2 Four receiver sockets for connecting the 1" SS tube to the stern push pit
Note: Each socket accepts two set screws on the bottom side.

I had two of these welded up: (The custom stanchion bases were made two years ago)


I also had four of these made up:
These are designed to fit over the 1/4" wire loops of the stern push pit quite precisely and pinch and grab them solidly when the bolt is tightened.


Cutting: For cutting 1" or 7/8" SS tube I use a #15 Ridgid pipe cutter, not a home center version but rather one from my plumbing wholesaler, and a Ridgid HD E-1240 SS cutting wheel. It makes quick and clean work of even heavy wall SS tube....


Finished Project: From start to finish it took less than 45 minutes to complete the install including cutting the tube to length on-board. I suppose if you add in the 20 minutes it took to draw the parts about 1:05 total.


*WAF = Very High

*wife acceptance factor

Total cost = $375.00
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Nice work. I too have been thinking about this project for a while. However, I think my WAF is much lower. When I showed Susan the photos, she said "Why?" and then "I want gutters on the house."

I'll keep dreaming.......
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Wow, love it! I have been thinking of solid, stainless rails for years, but as you point out, it's custom and expensive. Several years ago, moored in Warwick, RI, the next boat over had complete, solid stainless rails all around, and it looked beautiful. Must have cost a fortune.

You've done a great job on this. I'm inspired.

Thanks.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Very nice. Looks to give a nice secure feeling to the cockpit. Guessing here, no issues with the wench handle cranking the jib sheets?

I discovered after installing the lifeline around the cockpit, that I could not crank full circle with the lower line in place. So for now they are stored below deck till I decide to alter the wench base or not.
 

weinie

.
Sep 6, 2010
1,297
Jeanneau 349 port washington, ny
I wonder if that would pass our minimum safety requirements here for phrf.
I'm saying that because the bars are clearly not the push pit itself because of the bolts... i.e. it's not one welded unit.
And second, (our) rules state that lifelines need to be "Taut single wire or high molecular weight polyethylene (HMPE) line lifelines shall be installed..."

ETA: didn't mean to nit pick... it looks really nice. I just happened to be looking at the minimum safety requirements for racing here. I do this every time the Around Long Island Race happens (which it is now) because I keep thinking next year I'm going to enter. (and sadly I don't)
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,399
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I wonder if that would pass our minimum safety requirements here for phrf.
I'm saying that because the bars are clearly not the push pit itself because of the bolts... i.e. it's not one welded unit.
And second, (our) rules state that lifelines need to be "Taut single wire or high molecular weight polyethylene (HMPE) line lifelines shall be installed..."

ETA: didn't mean to nit pick... it looks really nice. I just happened to be looking at the minimum safety requirements for racing here. I do this every time the Around Long Island Race happens (which it is now) because I keep thinking next year I'm going to enter. (and sadly I don't)
ISAF 2012 said this (3.14.3)
Pulpits and stanchions shall be permanently installed. When there are sockets or studs, these shall be through-bolted, bonded or welded. The pulpit(s) and/or stanchions fitted to these shall be mechanically retained without the help of the life-lines. Without sockets or studs, pulpits and/or stanchions shall be through-bolted, bonded or welded.

World Sailing 2018 says this (3.14.d) (3.14.3 is now a spare number)
Pulpit and stanchion bases permanently installed with pulpits and stanchions mechanically retained in their base.

Assuming the new rail is part of the lifeline system, it would need to have the same tensile strength as lifeline wire. I'm not sure how you establish that 2 set screws meet that requirement. Since they have a reputation for becoming loose over time, I don't think you can. One solution would be to tap the set screws through into the tube. The other would be to through bolt them. I would not be comfortable relying on set screws, I don't think.

The new rule is far less prescriptive than the old rule.

That said, I like the look and it
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
I'm not sure how you establish that 2 set screws meet that requirement.
I don't see any set screws in MS's installation. That said, he could mark them, take them off, and have them welded-up if he wanted.
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I wonder if that would pass our minimum safety requirements here for phrf.
I was wondering about safety too. Not that is was Better or Worse.

My first thought would have been to add an additional Stanchion, mid span.

Now I am wondering the basis for Hunter designing the spans, hold downs and fittings.
_____
Great Craftsmanship @Maine Sail , as always, and I bet you have a ABYC standard as a reference.:)
Jim...
 

weinie

.
Sep 6, 2010
1,297
Jeanneau 349 port washington, ny
I actually want to apologize for raising the point, Mainesail. It is beautiful work, and knowing your standards, I'm sure it's stronger than any lifeline. I know Amels have tubular railings all around, so if it works for them....
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I wonder if that would pass our minimum safety requirements here for phrf. I'm saying that because the bars are clearly not the push pit itself because of the bolts... i.e. it's not one welded unit.
And second, (our) rules state that lifelines need to be "Taut single wire or high molecular weight polyethylene (HMPE) line lifelines shall be installed..."...)
My take is that his additions are NOT lifelines!
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,371
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
My last blue water boat had stainless steel railing in place of the original wire life-line from bow pulpit to stern pulpit. The middle one remained wire - mainly due to cost. I welded mine to each stantion but used a mechanical connection to the pulpits. That also was done for cost as making the socket connections was more expensive than welding and spot polishing as I could do those steps myself. Everyone thought this was crazy, but after years of use I would MUCH prefer that solid top rail over the wire any day. It is clearly much more robust than wire.

I don't know about the racing regs quoted above but I imagine they were written that way because no one thought of the possibility of a solid rail replacing the wire. Plus, competitive race boats wouldn't want the weight or (however minor) additional wind drag.

I do agree with adding in a through bolt rather than relying solely on set screws. That would not be difficult and could be done with nice decorative heads or by counter sinking the head on one side. Would have to think about the nut side...

I think this is one fantastic upgrade to any boat! Great job!

dj
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,131
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Nice! I added a rail to the top to hang my solar panels on when cruising. Had Garhauer make them up.100_0809.JPG
 
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Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Set screws are there and "spotted" into the tubes. Each "socket" fore and aft are two inches deep and there is no possible way to have the tubes come out of the sockets without unbolting the aft ends. I actually had to install both tubes into the gate stanchion then drop the whole contraption over the wire loops because there was not enough allowable movement otherwise.

I thought about drilling them through but, we rely on far less for safety than what this set up is. Heck every PSS Seal out there depends on set screws, cutlass bearings, stanchions, prop shaft couplings, furlers, steering systems, etc., etc., etc.. I have plenty of boats I work on that compete in numerous off shore sanctioned races. A large portion of these boats rely on simple set screws for the stanchions. This includes such pedigree race brands as J-Boat, Sydney 38, Farr and even the rather infamous Sir Peter Blake's old boat Ceramco NZ and many more..

Most factory pulpits/pushpits are made of thin walled tubing not .065 wall. CS Yachts did use .065 wall so both the 1" tubes are thick wall SS as well as the sockets and gate stanchions. I am not at all concerned about safety compared to the 3/16" lifeline fittings and wire. Beyond that, I have seen numerous boats pass "racing rules" inspections with CS Johnson hand crimp fitting lifelines.

Even without the set screws, & multiple set screws would need to come loose, not just one, and there are eight on each side, the stern pushpit or the gate stanchion would need to move or bend 4" + after a set screw failure.. They really would have a lot of trouble doing this because the 4" of insert depth for the sockets won't allow for it. All this would need to occur before either tube was lost.

The 1/4" wire loops on the stern pushpit (industry standard) will fail far before these tubes do.


ISAF 2012 said this (3.14.3)
Pulpits and stanchions shall be permanently installed.
They are...

When there are sockets or studs, these shall be through-bolted, bonded or welded.
What is the definition of "trough bolted"? - The set screws are a form of bolt/machine screw and are "trough" the socket..
What is the definition of "bonded"? - The sockets are bonded to the tube by way of the set screws
What is the definition of "welded" - The sockets are both welded and the stern are through bolted to the stern push pit.


The pulpit(s) and/or stanchions fitted to these shall be mechanically retained without the help of the life-lines.
They are....

Without sockets or studs, pulpits and/or stanchions shall be through-bolted, bonded or welded.
They have sockets....

World Sailing 2018 says this (3.14.d) (3.14.3 is now a spare number)
Pulpit and stanchion bases permanently installed with pulpits and stanchions mechanically retained in their base.
Meets this...

Assuming the new rail is part of the lifeline system, it would need to have the same tensile strength as lifeline wire.
CS Johnson fittings don't have the same tensile strength as the wire yet they are used the world over and even on many race boats. I've yet to see one fail a race inspection? By way of definitions I suspect it could be considered part of the stern pushpit with the "lifelines" starting at the gate.... Are you suggesting that 1" OD .065 wall SS tube is less strong than 3/16" SS wire....?

I'm not sure how you establish that 2 set screws meet that requirement.
How did J Boat or any others with removable stanchions establish that set screws are strong enough for the lifeline system? At least the set screws I used were "spotted" into the tube, just like on a prop shaft. Can't say so much for most of the racing boats I've worked on with removable stanchions held on just by the set screw pressing against the tube..
 
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Nov 26, 2008
1,966
Endeavour 42 Cruisin
nicely done. I went with the bimini hardware route. not as custom looking as you mentioned, but works well.
 
Feb 20, 2011
7,990
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Set screws are there and "spotted" into the tubes. Each "socket" fore and aft are two inches deep and there is no possible way to have the tubes come out of the sockets without unbolting the aft ends. I actually had to install both tubes into the gate stanchion then drop the whole contraption over the wire loops because there was not enough allowable movement otherwise.

I thought about drilling them through but, we rely on far less for safety than what this set up is. Heck every PSS Seal out there depends on set screws, cutlass bearings, stanchions, prop shaft couplings, furlers, steering systems, etc., etc., etc.. I have plenty of boats I work on that compete in numerous off shore sanctioned races. A large portion of these boats rely on simple set screws for the stanchions. This includes such pedigree race brands as J-Boat, Sydney 38, Farr and even the rather infamous Sir Peter Blake's old boat Ceramco NZ and many more..

Most factory pulpits/pushpits are made of thin walled tubing not .065 wall. CS Yachts did use .065 wall so both the 1" tubes are thick wall SS as well as the sockets and gate stanchions. I am not at all concerned about safety compared to the 3/16" lifeline fittings and wire. Beyond that, I have seen numerous boats pass "racing rules" inspections with CS Johnson hand crimp fitting lifelines.

Even without the set screws, & multiple set screws would need to come loose, not just one, and there are eight on each side, the stern pushpit or the gate stanchion would need to move or bend 4" + after a set screw failure.. They really would have a lot of trouble doing this because the 4" of insert depth for the sockets won't allow for it. All this would need to occur before either tube was lost.

The 1/4" wire loops on the stern pushpit (industry standard) will fail far before these tubes do.




They are...


What is the definition of "trough bolted"? - The set screws are a form of bolt/machine screw and are "trough" the socket..
What is the definition of "bonded"? - The sockets are bonded to the tube by way of the set screws
What is the definition of "welded" - The sockets are both welded and the stern are through bolted to the stern push pit.



They are....



They have sockets....



Meets this...



CS Johnson fittings don't have the same tensile strength as the wire yet they are used the world over and even on many race boats. I've yet to see one fail a race inspection? By way of definitions I suspect it could be considered part of the stern pushpit with the "lifelines" starting at the gate.... Are you suggesting that 1" OD .065 wall SS tube is less strong than 3/16" SS wire....?



How did J Boat or any others with removable stanchions establish that set screws are strong enough for the lifeline system? At least the set screws I used were "spotted" into the tube, just like on a prop shaft. Can't say so much for most of the racing boats I've worked on with removable stanchions held on just by the set screw pressing against the tube..
Okay, okay! Set screws it is! :rolleyes:
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Sweet job!
For our purposes, I'd be perfectly happy with just the upper one being tube, and the lower one being Dyneema or the like.
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
It looks well thought out to me. Do you have a gate forward of the tubing or do you just step over for boarding? We usually board next to the dodger so our gates are in the wrong place.

Ken
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,399
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
By "spotted" I assume you mean a shallow hole was drilled? Or was a hole drilled to the size of the set screw, and the screw placed into it? That should be quite secure. My concern is that less diligent workmen will not understand that these set screws need to be well placed, spotted, and that heavy wall tubing must be used. I've seen lots of railings and stanchions secured with set screws that worked loose and could be pulled out vertically. Would-be DIYs also need to understand that a stanchion and a railing are not structurally similar; set screws in a stanchion base need to keep the post from just falling out, while a lifeline (and that is what this is) must withstand 4500 pounds in tension. With the screws spotted in heavy tubing (if I am understanding that correctly) it would. If the set screws are just screwed into lighter tubing, there is a good chance that some years from now they might get loose, particularly if the railing is used regularly for balance.

There is no need to be defensive. I agree that the new language could be considered ambiguous, although the definition of through bolt is clear to most people; it means we can see a bolt going through, which makes it's presence simple to confirm. In fact, what you did was not anticipated by the writers of the rule and is thus is not clearly specified. I can see a race committee inspector taking issue if he cannot see a through bolt. They've seen stanchion bases set screws come loose and they've seen bimini frames pull apart. I have. As an inspector they have to go by what they can see, and some can be quite literal.

I like the idea. It's certainly less wobbly than a wire. I was only responding to Weinie's question.