Lifeline netting, who's got it, do you like it?

[Cpt. Jon]

One thing that I want to add to the boat soon is lifeline netting. I was out looking at the boat and I feel like the way it will look best if it runs the whole length of the lifelines and not just around the cockpit area.

So, who has or has had lifeline netting on their boat to maintain that warm and fuzzy feeling with children on board? We will have kids on board for many years to come and though my 3 1/2 year old is very well behaved on board right now and listens well, we know that as the 6 week old gets older it will be harder and harder to have a close eye on both kids when we are going through maneuvers or weather. We are pretty sure we want it and will get it, but I want to know how others that have it or have had it for the kids felt about it.

If you have any pictures of your lifeline netting and feel like sharing I'd love to see!

thanks!

Jon

 

[Ross]

I once knew a fisherman that took his small children out with him. He was asked concerning their safety and he said "I just put a line on them and make it fast to a ringbolt. If they fall overboard I haul them back on deck."

 

[Gail R]

You can't rely on lifeline netting to keep kids safe

Disclosure: Not my personal experience, but that of an acquaintance on another board. He related a story of how some friends of his lost their toddler when he fell through the lifeline netting. This happened when they were all rafted up in a quiet anchorage. It happened very quickly (matter of minutes or even seconds) -- before people even realized the child was unaccounted for, he had fallen through the netting and drowned. So for this particular person, there is no warm and fuzzy feeling about lifeline netting whatsoever. On the contrary, he very strongly believes it breeds a false sense of security and compacency.

Everyone I know who sails with small kids has the same rule. While under way, one parent sails the boat; the other watches the kids. The other rule most parents use is "one hand for you, one for the boat" -- IOW, the kid is ALWAYS holding onto a railing or some secure object if he/she leaves the cockpit.

If the weather gets snotty, the kids go below. Hopefully, they fall asleep in the vee berth surrounded by cushions.

 

[Ross]

Re: You can't rely on lifeline netting to keep kids safe

Get a book on the art of netting and weave your own. That way you make it to your requirements, mesh size, bottom attachment, line size.
http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/net-making/

 

[Alan]

Had it once, HATED it and got rid of it.

But I do have a bungee on the foredeck to hold the flaked headsail in a blow.

 

[Ross]

Having observed kids eversince I was one, my concern would be that kids climb and netting is a natural. By the time I was in second grade I could climb the chainlink backstop on our school's ball field and roll over the top and climb down the other side. A few years later my feet were too big.

 

[s sauer]

Life lines & Netting.

Had it once, HATED it and got rid of it.

But I do have a bungee on the foredeck to hold the flaked headsail in a blow.

I've always used lacings between the life lines with bungee cords to control sails. However, life jackets should be required at all times for small children or anyone who can't swim.
I would never trust netting as you can't put it everywhere and still get jib sheets and anchor lines and even dock lines where they all need to be.

We had a 60 lb Black Lab slide backwards thru the lacings and go overboard, fortunately she could swim and we retrieved her,not without some anxious moments. From that point our dogs even wear doggie life vests and a harness with leash clipped in the cockpit.

 

[Ross]

Re: Life lines & Netting.

Every year at our county fair they have a competion for hunting and retrieving dogs to see which one can leap the fartherest into a swimming pool and retrieve a toy or lure. twenty feet is common for the Labs and they want to do it again.

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

We had netting on the bow section of our life line (bow pulpit to about 8' aft) when our kids were little. The original idea was help keep the kids on board when they were playing on the fore-deck. Frankly, it worked ok for keeping headsails on deck after dropping them. However, there is no way I would trust any netting or lifeline to keep the kids safe. Safety harnesses (now mandatory life-jackets) plus an attentive parent are the only way to go.
James Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[Prime Time]

On the bow

Have had it on the foredeck to help keep sails on the deck when dropped. I grew up sailing. As a kid (3-15) we were ALWAYS tethered to the boat with a simple line tied around our waist then a harness as me and my brother got older. These days they do make harnesses for kids that would be preferable. I like the idea of complete netting to keep kids on board plus harnesses.

Oddly, the only time the old line around the waist ever "saved" anyone was when my bro and I were fooling around and I fell down the companionway hatch and the line kept me from splitting my skull.

As adolescents, my bro and I were on the foredeck in heavy weather changing sails. My bro was changing his attachment point (days before jack lines) and the bow was buried by solid water. I was attached and had my hand on my bro's hood of his foul weather gear. We both were off the boat and then washed back by the next wave. My harness kept me on board and my arm was my bro's harness.

 

[jhiggs]

netting

Being a hard core sailor, when our son came on the scene there was no doubt he would be aboard a lot. The netting was essential as was keeping a close eye on him all the time. If he was sitting quietly below decks or in the cockpit, we did not require a pfd in normal conditions. When he went on deck, underway, a pfd was required and the netting, solidly attached to lifelines and to the deck, was a must. I ran quarter inch line attaching the top of the net to the lifeline. I also wove it into the netting on the bottom and secured it to the stanchion bottoms. Midway between each stanchion I used a small stainless fairlead secured to the deck to anchor the bottom of the net.

 

[Cpt. Jon]

Disclosure: Not my personal experience, but that of an acquaintance on another board. He related a story of how some friends of his lost their toddler when he fell through the lifeline netting. This happened when they were all rafted up in a quiet anchorage. It happened very quickly (matter of minutes or even seconds) -- before people even realized the child was unaccounted for, he had fallen through the netting and drowned. So for this particular person, there is no warm and fuzzy feeling about lifeline netting whatsoever. On the contrary, he very strongly believes it breeds a false sense of security and compacency.

Everyone I know who sails with small kids has the same rule. While under way, one parent sails the boat; the other watches the kids. The other rule most parents use is "one hand for you, one for the boat" -- IOW, the kid is ALWAYS holding onto a railing or some secure object if he/she leaves the cockpit.

If the weather gets snotty, the kids go below. Hopefully, they fall asleep in the vee berth surrounded by cushions.

Very sad to hear that! Indeed if the weather is snotty you are right, the kids are always below. Like I said, our 3 year old is a very good listener and does seem to understand that it's a priveledge to be out on the boat. That said, she like looking at the waves, especially on the lee side or sometimes dolphins when they grace us and the thought is that if a stong gust hit or something the netting would be an added layer of security, not the only layer.

My daughter loves going up and down the companionway stairs/ladder, to the extreme that she will put on her life jacket just to do so... the good news is that she understands that she MUST wear her lifejacket when not below deck, the bad news is I nearly have a heart attack everytime she is on those damn steps....

My wife trolls all these posts, especially the ones I post and maybe with this topic she will create a login or use mine to share her experiences.

Again, my deepest sorrows go out to the families that lose their children that they love so much, and it IS, like most parents, my GREATEST fear!

 

[Cpt. Jon]

I once knew a fisherman that took his small children out with him. He was asked concerning their safety and he said "I just put a line on them and make it fast to a ringbolt. If they fall overboard I haul them back on deck."

looking for a little more than that Ross... We know people that have basically given up the things they love because of their children... that is not us, we believe in sharing it with them and have been so rewarded because of it! My 3 year old scolded me for not taking her out on my guys night out with the Iraq war veterans that I served with when we went out last weekend for 1 night... She respects the boat and the rules, but there are instances that happen on boats at sea that are unforeseen... perhaps though, you are right that we tether them... crap... I could delete all that stuff above, but that would make this post a lot less interesting. The unfortunate thing is that I cannot think of a good tethering system that works with their size life jackets other than just making on up...

 

[Ron20324]

The unfortunate thing is that I cannot think of a good tethering system that works with their size life jackets other than just making on up...[/quote]

How about a safety harness and just hang them from the boom?

 

[Cpt. Jon]

Having observed kids eversince I was one, my concern would be that kids climb and netting is a natural. By the time I was in second grade I could climb the chainlink backstop on our school's ball field and roll over the top and climb down the other side. A few years later my feet were too big.

That's true, hell I hope my kids can too... BUT.... were your parents around and was that a BIG NO NO???

Ross, I really like you a lot from all your posts, so don't think my responses are critical. In fact, I think that you should pm me a couple of recipes like a good NE clam chowder and perhaps a maryland crab soup recipe :dance: . Our rules, which were rewarded by the "coast guard auxillary" because our daughter was wearing her lifejacket ( IT IS THE LAW and we were praised for it???), will not change because of lifeline netting... we intend that it is an additional safety measure that may help in the case of a knockdown or something...

 

[Cpt. Jon]

We had netting on the bow section of our life line (bow pulpit to about 8' aft) when our kids were little. The original idea was help keep the kids on board when they were playing on the fore-deck. Frankly, it worked ok for keeping headsails on deck after dropping them. However, there is no way I would trust any netting or lifeline to keep the kids safe. Safety harnesses (now mandatory life-jackets) plus an attentive parent are the only way to go.
James Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

jeez, I dont know what you mean by "when our kids were little", I am guessing that they were a lot older than the ones I am worried about! My wife and I aren't even "playing on the foredeck" yet!

 

[Cpt. Jon]

Have had it on the foredeck to help keep sails on the deck when dropped. I grew up sailing. As a kid (3-15) we were ALWAYS tethered to the boat with a simple line tied around our waist then a harness as me and my brother got older. These days they do make harnesses for kids that would be preferable. I like the idea of complete netting to keep kids on board plus harnesses.

Oddly, the only time the old line around the waist ever "saved" anyone was when my bro and I were fooling around and I fell down the companionway hatch and the line kept me from splitting my skull.

As adolescents, my bro and I were on the foredeck in heavy weather changing sails. My bro was changing his attachment point (days before jack lines) and the bow was buried by solid water. I was attached and had my hand on my bro's hood of his foul weather gear. We both were off the boat and then washed back by the next wave. My harness kept me on board and my arm was my bro's harness.

holy crap, glad you guys made it! appreciate your story and input!

 

[Cpt. Jon]

Being a hard core sailor, when our son came on the scene there was no doubt he would be aboard a lot. The netting was essential as was keeping a close eye on him all the time. If he was sitting quietly below decks or in the cockpit, we did not require a pfd in normal conditions. When he went on deck, underway, a pfd was required and the netting, solidly attached to lifelines and to the deck, was a must. I ran quarter inch line attaching the top of the net to the lifeline. I also wove it into the netting on the bottom and secured it to the stanchion bottoms. Midway between each stanchion I used a small stainless fairlead secured to the deck to anchor the bottom of the net.

Thank you, this is what I am talking about.... I am not trying to abandon my resonsibilities as a father... hell there are easier ways to do that... thanks jhiggs!

 

[Cpt. Jon]

The unfortunate thing is that I cannot think of a good tethering system that works with their size life jackets other than just making one up...

How about a safety harness and just hang them from the boom?

sure, they'd love that... perhaps I could just do that at home and sail in peace by myself...

good times...

 

[John]

Putting up lifeline netting was one of the first things I did when we got our boat. It doesn't give me a false sense of security with kids (or dogs) aboard at all. I don't think any one thing will absolutely guarantee safety, so I see it as one more safety item.