lifehack for budget bluewater boats for a family of 4

[dlochner]

The most important part of this adventure is to win your husband over and make sure he has at least half the passion you have for the adventure. And find out if the life style is one both of you want. Living for days in a very small space can be challenging. Remember, a 30 foot boat has about 300 square feet of living space and when living on a boat, modesty is the first casualty. I suspect your apartment in Montreal is larger.

One of the benefits of posting your question on a forum is the many responses you will get and the varying advice you will get. That's also the downside, it can get confusing, overwhelming, and depressing.

This past year and probably this year the new and used boat market is a seller's market, boats are selling quickly and at a premium. (As are all recreational products, canoes and kayaks, powerboats, snowshoes, RVs, home swimming pools, etc.). In a year or two when the pandemic is under better control a lot of these boats will be on the market and it will become a buyer's market, prices will go down. You might be able to play this to your advantage, buy a small cheap sailboat that you can overnight and weekend on. Spend this year and maybe next convincing your husband that this is really fun and you can't wait to get the next boat and set off. Meanwhile you'll be learning about cruising and building the cruising kitty.

An older boat in the 22-25 foot range would be a good start, C&C, Catalina, O'Day, are all decent brands and have boats in this range. In my youth I cruised a Tanzer 22 all over eastern Lake Ontario for a week or more at time. It was great fun and I learned a lot. Finding the next boat was easier because I had a better idea of what I was looking for and what to look for.

Dan and Kika on Sailing Uma started right out of graduate school and bought an old Pearson 36 and followed their dream. Their advice for a young couple such as yourselves is to Don't Buy a Couch.

Good Luck!

 

[jibes138]

Here's a boat that might fit the bill for the OP although a little over budget no idea what can be negotiated and how interested the owner is to part with her. Any older boat you have to question the motor and all operating systems, only a good survey can tell you if you are getting into a mess. The Allied Seawind II is a solid sailing vessel and this looks like a sloop rig of which only five were made according to my readings. Most were ketch rigged. They are heavy so it takes some breeze to get them going, and the interior is not made to be a comfort dock condo, it is functional. They are certainly in the category of "blue water boat." 1976 Allied Seawind Mark II Sloop for sale - YachtWorld

 

[jibes138]

Here's a ketch rig Seawind II for just a few grand more. The pictures show the underwater portion of the hull and keel. Looks to be in better shape than my first post but no pics of the motor. 1975 Ketch Allied Seawind MK II Cutter for sale - YachtWorld Much closer to home and I have no idea why it is listed as a cutter when it is clearly a ketch.

 

[Will Gilmore]

That's a yawl. The mizzen boom overhangs the transom.

She doesn't even have the double heads'l stays of a cutter rig.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[jon hansen]

Will, that is not a yawl. it is a ketch. maybe a cutter ketch, i can't tell.

sure looks clean for a boat her age. might even be faster than a westsail 32.

 

[TomY]

Thank you for the response everyone! There are indeed many things I have not considered in terms of the true cost of time. To give some more information, we don't have any kids yet, but we are planning to. We newly moved to Montreal so we haven't really connected with any local sailing community yet, b/c of covid and frankly I just don't know anyone here. I learnt dinghy sailing and crewed for people's boats on club races on lake Ontario, did my keelboat intro courses, but I have not done an overnight trip. My husband doesn't know how to sail at all lol, but he's very interested in learning.

I've wanted to go cruising and explore different islands and coastlines for a few years now. I tried to do it a few times when I was younger, asking to crew for boats on transatlantic crossings, in the Mediterranean, but it never happened due to concerns for safety etc, which now I really regret (so I don't know if I'm THAT adventurous). Now I'm married, I see more and more life obligations but I don't want my dreams to just die like that, besides I think it would be a really nice activity for my family to do. If I don't do it, It would probably be one of my biggest regrets when I die.

So really my goal is to just get going first, and learn and fine tune things later, which many of you have pointed out, if the budget is too low, it's very likely I'll get stuck on the get going part. I also don't want to scare my husband too much in terms of how much this "hobby" would cost, so I have been telling him things like " it's ok we can find something cheap and we can fix it and learn to sail, and eventually go to the Caribbean and explore the islands there", which is what he's really interested in doing.

So I guess in summary I'm looking for a boat that can help me achieve that, to get us going, to cruise around the Caribbean, as minimiumly as possible, to help us learn safely. If possible I'd like to have the boat as small as possible to keep expanses down.

You have surprising (and refreshing) wisdom for someone at this stage of owning a sailboat.

An Alberg 30 is a perfect place to start looking for a boat. It would make be a fine coastal sailer in your area, or take you down the coast to the islands if you decide to. Plus, you may find a pretty good A-30 in your price range that doesn't require tons of work.

You can realize your sailing dream, anywhere. Distance has nothing to do with that. More important is your husband and he sounds game. You have the rest.

 

[dlochner]

That's a yawl. The mizzen boom overhangs the transom.

She doesn't even have the double heads'l stays of a cutter rig.

-Will (Dragonfly)

That's a Ketch. The mizzen mast is forward of the rudder post. A yawl typically has a smaller mizzen and the mast is aft of the rudder post.

 

[TomY]

Will, that is not a yawl. it is a ketch. maybe a cutter ketch, i can't tell.

sure looks clean for a boat her age. might even be faster than a westsail 32.

The local sailing school explains ketch vs yawl like this: If you're steering a ketch and the mizzen falls down, you "catch it". If it falls down on a yawl, 'yall go get it".

 

[SFS]

That's a Ketch. The mizzen mast is forward of the rudder post. A yawl typically has a smaller mizzen and the mast is aft of the rudder post.

That's the definition I've always heard. dlochner's mnemonic is new to me, but I'll pass it on to our sailing school.

 

[dlochner]

That's the definition I've always heard. dlochner's mnemonic is new to me, but I'll pass it on to our sailing school.

I think you mean @TomY's mnemonic. Credit where credit is due.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Update on The Escape Artists - (I'm talking about the Canadian trio). They did make it from Lake Ontario to the Bahamas and back in about 1 year time (I think). Read their web page logs - they are pretty descriptive about how they got started and what they learned along the way. They say they did the round trip for about $30,000 CAN, which included buying the boat for $8,500, putting $5,000 into making her ready, and about $8,000 for towing and repair in Cape May. Their video made it sound like they were almost defeated, but apparently all 3 stuck together and made the trip. It's hard to believe that they lived for about a year on less than $10,000 left over after the major expenses (with prices in Bahamas??) but I did say that they appeared to be very resourceful.

Their boat was a Cal 29, an older model with fin keel and spade rudder. This is not a Blue Water boat but it is a very solid coastal cruiser and you can find one in the neighborhood of $10,000 US. I'll say it again ... don't get locked into the notion of a "Blue Water" boat. If the boat you are looking at has a full keel (which is what the "blue water" folks usually advocate), it may be slow and stodgy, and the opposite of what you and your husband may enjoy sailing. But look around to satisfy your own curiosity ... just keep an open mind and don't limit your options.

I read their blogs and they are very informative (see "25 things you need to know before sailing down the east coast") ... including all of the pitfalls they experienced down the entire east coast. Another Canadian Couple you might enjoy their experience ... Shaun & Julia Sailing. They were prolific for awhile until about a year ago. They eventually got married (had a baby?) and stopped wanting to live with a camera in their face around the clock.

I mention the videos because they are very informative, but not necessarily what you may want to do. You can waste a lot of time watching them so be careful that you don't fall into the trap of living vicariously. They do inspire people to take the measures to pursue your dreams.

 

[jon hansen]

some people's idea of camping is a pop-top at the local KOA, some want a RV to drive around to national parks, some think hiking the appalachain trail with just a backback, while others choose a Provost bus. catch my drift?
to sail the world, you don't need an engine. a couple of hundred bucks will cover all the "needed navigational" gear. in 1969 the average lenghth of vessel's of world cruisers was 29'.
most here in the states seem to want the biggest RV they can afford with all the comforts of not being outside. well, same with boats. they mostly like modern condos that float. and most, buy a vessel too big and expensive for their budget and never go anywhere. one look at all the masts parked at any marina on a beautiful sailing day will prove that point. that's right , i said it!

hiking the appilation trail with teach you more camping skills then driving the interstate in a winabago. both are get adventures.

so, to answer your question, a good "bluewater" sailboat is a "strong" sailboat. no core in the hull is nice. no core in the deck is better. neither required to take you around the world.

old Carl Alberg's are strong. old alden's, too. boats like that.

best time to buy a fixer upper? right after a hurricane goes through

just some ramblings of an old man that has sailed many miles, jon

 

[dlochner]

@Scott T-Bird Thanks for the lead to "The Escape Artists" YouTube channel. While their videography is a little raw, it was nice to see video of my sailing grounds on Lake Ontario.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

@Scott T-Bird Thanks for the lead to "The Escape Artists" YouTube channel. While their videography is a little raw, it was nice to see video of my sailing grounds on Lake Ontario.

I watched with interest because they appeared to anchor at 3 locations where I have been anchored. It appears they anchored at Tices Shoal and Conklin Island in Barnegat Bay and Rum Point (Brigantine Bay) near Atlantic City. It also appears that they filmed (in the relatively close background, sailing) a 26' Seaward with blue hull that is in our marina. I am positive it is the same boat and I could swear it is Laura (the owner) whom appears on the deck of the boat. They apparently did the trip from Conklin Island to Little Egg Inlet (aka Tuckerton) on the iCW and then outside to A.C. LEI is pretty tricky even for locals, I think. I don't think they had a depth sounder during their entire trip. They seemed to be entirely unprepared for shallow water, having problems grounding just about every place they went. They also didn't mind swimming in mid-October, something only Canadians would do, I think . They couldn't use their dinghy, so they actually swam from their boat at the 79th Street anchorage on the Hudson to get ashore in Manhattan. Clearly, they are out of their minds!

 

[Tally Ho]

I've long noticed that the less one knows about a subject the more that seems possible regarding it. Nowhere has that been more evident than among the would-be, first-time boat owners with low "budgets" and big commitments, such as family and job. It takes a long time to do anything right working on a boat; more than what seems fair. It will likely consume you or you will not finish it. Also, it costs what it costs. "Budgets" are for the most part a fantasy when messing with boats. They might work at home, but not out here. If you stop when your unrealistic "budget" runs out of funds, nothing happens. Boat is still not ready for that voyage. Repeated "unbudgeted" expenses going into the boat and little else raises questions at home. The best one can do is endeavor to keep costs down as they come. But come they will; no getting around it. And we have not even gotten to the part about experience.

For evidence of this, look up Sail Life on YouTube...

I think Ma is about 4 years into his refit of a Warrior 38 in Denmark. He is a perfectionist, but still...4 years!

I sure would like to know how much $$ he has on that boat when he is done.

Greg

 

[dLj]

@lovelytsquared Here's a link that you can spend a fair amount of time looking at boats that others have considered blue water capable:

Bluewaterboats.org - Sailboat reviews for offshore sailing

bluewaterboats.org

Come back with more specific questions and we can work on those more directly.

dj

 

[SFS]

And here is a similar site, with all sorts of info on blue water capable boats. This guy makes a living as a consultant on buying (and selling I guess) blue water boats, and I think teaches offshore classes as well. There is a LOT of info on this (linked) site:

Boat Selection Consultation Service

BOAT SELECTION CONSULTATION SERVICE Since 1976 I have professionally consulted with over 10,000 people seeking cruising boats. My experience in the marine industry is unique; 391,000 miles and 48 years worldwide ocean sailing experience plus boatbuilding, surveying and previously owning a...

www.mahina.com

 

[Will Gilmore]

That's a Ketch. The mizzen mast is forward of the rudder post. A yawl typically has a smaller mizzen and the mast is aft of the rudder post.

I knew there was a reason I hung out here. Always something to learn.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[dLj]

And here is a similar site, with all sorts of info on blue water capable boats. This guy makes a living as a consultant on buying (and selling I guess) blue water boats, and I think teaches offshore classes as well. There is a LOT of info on this (linked) site:

Boat Selection Consultation Service

BOAT SELECTION CONSULTATION SERVICE Since 1976 I have professionally consulted with over 10,000 people seeking cruising boats. My experience in the marine industry is unique; 391,000 miles and 48 years worldwide ocean sailing experience plus boatbuilding, surveying and previously owning a...

www.mahina.com

@lovelytsquared - John and Amanda Neil's web site above has an excellent introduction page. Between the list from their site and the BlueWaterBoats I first put up should give you a lot of food for thought.

There was a note on the Neil's site talking about taking up to a year to find a boat. With the budget constraints you've mentioned, you may well take a lot longer than that. You'll also want to start looking without paying for a surveyor each time. You are going to want to begin learning how to evaluate different parts of the boat on your own accord. You will also likely be looking at plastic (fiberglass) boats rather then steel, aluminum or wood. I do not recommend ferrocement, but each to their own.

Looking at plastic boats, you'll want to look for moisture problems, especially on decks. You'll have to learn to know if you are looking at a boat with a cored hull. I recommend you buy a moisture meter and read Maine Sails write up on moisture meters:

Understanding The Moisture Meter - Marine How To

I hope I haven't fried your brain at this point... LOL

dj

 

[lovelytsquared]

@lovelytsquared - John and Amanda Neil's web site above has an excellent introduction page. Between the list from their site and the BlueWaterBoats I first put up should give you a lot of food for thought.

There was a note on the Neil's site talking about taking up to a year to find a boat. With the budget constraints you've mentioned, you may well take a lot longer than that. You'll also want to start looking without paying for a surveyor each time. You are going to want to begin learning how to evaluate different parts of the boat on your own accord. You will also likely be looking at plastic (fiberglass) boats rather then steel, aluminum or wood. I do not recommend ferrocement, but each to their own.

Looking at plastic boats, you'll want to look for moisture problems, especially on decks. You'll have to learn to know if you are looking at a boat with a cored hull. I recommend you buy a moisture meter and read Maine Sails write up on moisture meters:

Understanding The Moisture Meter - Marine How To

I hope I haven't fried your brain at this point... LOL

dj

Any suggestions are welcome. I'm looking to learn more, at the same time I think I'll know what I need to know and what I don't know once I run into problems in real life scenarios (hopefully non life theatening)