Liability...... Good Samaritan or just a fool
- Thread starter NYSail
- Start date
Of course.
The Romantic Sound Of Clanging Halyards
Sunday, November 28, 2004
By Capt. Alan Hugenot
Have you ever been woken up at night while sleeping in a marina because the neighboring sailboat’s halyards were banging against the mast in the wind?
If you have ever tried to sleep through this constant noise, which is like someone continuously knocking on your door, then you know the dilemma which this causes for any poor sailor trying to sleep nearby.
Of course, the skipper of the offending boat is not there to hear the incessant slap, slap, slap, and he probably wants to keep those halyards ready to hoist sail as soon as he comes aboard, totally unaware that by doing so he is creating a nerve-racking noise machine.
So what can you do?
You can’t sleep and you are conflicted about what action to take.
You know that if you go aboard his boat and swing the halyards outboard around the spreader before making them fast again that the incessant slap will stop. And, you wonder why the inconsiderate skipper did not do that before he stowed his boat.
Maybe you also know that he only comes down to the marina once a month or even less to check his boat. You know he is totally unaware that you have to listen to his halyards going slap, clang, slap, clang every night.
On the other hand if you go aboard his boat to fix the problem, it will actually be trespassing - not quite breaking and entering - but trespassing none the less.
When he comes back to the boat, he may even get angry at the “prankster” who tangled his halyards around the spreaders, thinking “who would do such a thing, just to confound him.” He, of course, never realizing the true reason unless you tell him.
Yet, from a different perspective you might only be a “good Samaritan.”
For instance, if the halyard were loose and about to carry away through the top of the mast, then that same skipper would want you to quickly go aboard his boat (even though he had not given you permission) and “properly” secure it.
That simple act of neighborly seamanship would save him the grief of having to go aloft to re-thread the halyard through the top of the mast.
So wouldn’t it be the same thing here?
His halyard is clearly wearing itself out beating against the mast, and if you will just “properly” stow it for him, then it will not wear out as quickly. Also your nerves won’t wear out as quickly either.
This is no small problem.
I have lived aboard for several years, in both Seattle, Wash. and San Francisco, and have also spent a night or two in nearly every marina from San Diego to Seward, Alaska. In every one there are these slapping halyards.
At first you might think that a polite word to the offending skipper would solve the problem.
But a couple of times when I asked the owner of an offending boat if they could take a moment before going ashore to quiet their halyards by rigging them away from the masts, they became defensive.
They acted like I was being rude for butting into their business, criticizing their seamanship.
They arrogantly pointed out that they knew what they were doing, had studied proper halyard techniques, and had graduated from ASA or US Sailing. They were not going to quiet their halyards by rigging them outboard.
Besides who was I to tell them anything.
In one case the offending skipper said that “If they found their halyards any different than how they chose to leave them” then they would blame me for trespassing on their boat, and would report it to the marina manager.
After this encounter, I could not stop the noise from his boat, and wished I had never spoken to him about it.
I knew that if I had never brought it up, I could have quieted his halyards and he would not know who “fouled” his lines.
Instead, I changed marinas and learned the lesson that my safest bet was to quiet all offending halyards myself, and do so without telling the owner that I was the culprit.
This “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy allowed me to sleep, and several weeks later when the offending skipper turned up to sail his boat I was not there to hear his wrath about “Whoever fouled his halyards was going to catch hell.”
I guess it comes down to who is more inconsiderate: Me for trespassing on his boat, or him for leaving the noisy halyard slapping against the mast.
It is such a simple thing to just tie the halyards off on the shrouds, or swinging them around the spreaders. Maybe 60 seconds to quiet every halyard on the boat.
Another idea is to use a shock cord to pull them over toward the shrouds and away from the mast, and there are dozens of other ways to stop the slap, slap, slap.
Of course no way am I advocating that you climb on someone’s boat and adjust their halyards. Trespassing is something I would never encourage you to do.
Several times in marina parking lots I have heard novice boaters saying “Wow, listen to the clanging of the all the sailboats in the wind. Isn’t it romantic.”
So maybe it is a matter of perspective, or rather ignorance of the harm that may be caused by what may be romantic to one person and pollution to another, depending upon perspective.
It baffles me to no end why sailing instructors don’t teach this simple courtesy to their students.
It seems that simple courtesy should always be part of every lesson for novice sailors.
We live pretty close together on the water, which means we need to cultivate proper manners and respect for our fellow boaters. Learning how to rig our boat so that it does not create undue noise pollution should be part of every sailing lesson.
Actually, in California the boating laws are beginning to take notice of noise pollution.
Beginning in the fall of 2004 agencies will begin to enforce a new law that makes it illegal to have a power boat that is too noisy.
Maybe this idea that noise pollution on the water is a crime can be stretched to include sailboats that are too noisy. Clang, slap, clang - but it’s so romantic. Yea, right.
I would be good with marina's empowering their security crew to "secure" noisy halyards. I would fully expect them to charge $$$ for this service. It is the only way you are going to get some peoples attentions. The "trespass" could easily be bypassed by putting a clause in the contract you sign when obtaining the slip. Doesn't have to be expensive or fouling - just some 1/4 line around the halyards tied outboard, along with a notice of the fine. $50 an infractions should do it.
Les
Les
i'd tie up the boat so to stop the damage. every time. done it a lot of times. seamen take care of each other, it's a tradition going back 6,000 years.
Not a new question on here -
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/marina-etiquette-halyards.109045/
I will adjust lines if I see a boat that is beating against the dock. I try to be sure my fenders are placed properly in case mine slacken.
I will tighten or tie up other boat halyards if they are flogging badly. I think our club statutes say be sure to keep them tight.
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/marina-etiquette-halyards.109045/
I will adjust lines if I see a boat that is beating against the dock. I try to be sure my fenders are placed properly in case mine slacken.
I will tighten or tie up other boat halyards if they are flogging badly. I think our club statutes say be sure to keep them tight.
Of course pull the line in. What liability? How is that foolish? In my marina we have a few live-aboards. They routinely do things like that. The most common thing is the unfurled flapping headsail that comes undone due to high winds.
About a year ago when a gale was blowing through the Shoreline Marina in Long Beach a friend who lives out of town called me and asked if I would go to his boat and secure his roller-furled headsail that evidently had partially gotten loose and was flapping violently. (I think it was marina security who called him.) When I got there two of his dock neighbors were on the scene already trying to get the thing re-secured. It was big boat (Hunter 45); thus, not easily a one-man job, potentially. I was glad others were there to assist. Having been called by the owner I sort of took charge of the operation--which was fine w/ them. It was nighttime, of course.
The problem was not that the furling drum had turned; it was fully secured with the furling line as tight as piano string. (You find this out by looking on knees and elbows into the drum guide with a flashlight to see the furling line fully deployed from the drum.) The sail up high near the clew had pouched out some, and had caught wind which blew out the slack of the sail itself from not having been furled tightly enough. There was enough of it out to cause the devil of a noise, and WINCHING IN THE FURLING LINE FURTHER WAS NOT THE SOLUTION
as doing so would not turn the drum!! (But it might break something!!) We had to somehow re-wrap or tie up the sail up high to secure the loose part, etc. Took about half an hour.
Moral is--a problem might not be fixable in a straightforward manner. You start something (rescue attempt) on another's guy's boat w/o his permission and you had better be able to finish it w/o making things worse or else....? So, in answer to the OP's question--you call the marina--the marina calls the owner-- the owner calls somebody or comes down himself. End of story. The very poor maintenance I see on many boats deters me from touching anything that might fail under much strain, etc.
BTW. the owner had told me not to fret about damaging the headsail as a new one had already been ordered. Turns out-- the guy who had come out to measure the boat and the sail for the new one that same morning was the guy who had last touched the rig!!!
The problem was not that the furling drum had turned; it was fully secured with the furling line as tight as piano string. (You find this out by looking on knees and elbows into the drum guide with a flashlight to see the furling line fully deployed from the drum.) The sail up high near the clew had pouched out some, and had caught wind which blew out the slack of the sail itself from not having been furled tightly enough. There was enough of it out to cause the devil of a noise, and WINCHING IN THE FURLING LINE FURTHER WAS NOT THE SOLUTION
as doing so would not turn the drum!! (But it might break something!!) We had to somehow re-wrap or tie up the sail up high to secure the loose part, etc. Took about half an hour.Moral is--a problem might not be fixable in a straightforward manner. You start something (rescue attempt) on another's guy's boat w/o his permission and you had better be able to finish it w/o making things worse or else....? So, in answer to the OP's question--you call the marina--the marina calls the owner-- the owner calls somebody or comes down himself. End of story. The very poor maintenance I see on many boats deters me from touching anything that might fail under much strain, etc.
BTW. the owner had told me not to fret about damaging the headsail as a new one had already been ordered. Turns out-- the guy who had come out to measure the boat and the sail for the new one that same morning was the guy who had last touched the rig!!!
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Well I am a helper and will do what I can within my capacity. I know how to secure a boat and will always do so with the hope someone would return the favor. Just had a heated argument with somebody yesterday who saw the liability side only. Poor fella.
I just try to meet and make friends with as many of my dock mates as possible.
I let them know that I live only 4 miles from the marina and try to keep an eye on my boat as well as any others that might need attention. I make the offer to let them know about any issues by adding slip # first name, and a contact phone # in my cell.
Never been turned down yet, made some good friends, and know that giving "first aid" to any of their boats will be appreciated, not criticized.
I once during stormy weather walked all docks in my marina with cell phone video of each boat as I walked, then posted on our slip holders Facebook. Got many thanks for that.
Being a good neighbor yourself helps not worrying about lawsuits.
Bob
I let them know that I live only 4 miles from the marina and try to keep an eye on my boat as well as any others that might need attention. I make the offer to let them know about any issues by adding slip # first name, and a contact phone # in my cell.
Never been turned down yet, made some good friends, and know that giving "first aid" to any of their boats will be appreciated, not criticized.
I once during stormy weather walked all docks in my marina with cell phone video of each boat as I walked, then posted on our slip holders Facebook. Got many thanks for that.
Being a good neighbor yourself helps not worrying about lawsuits.
Bob
I will always try to snug up loose dock lines...its called being neighborly. As far as noisy halyards... I try to set a good example by taking care of mine. The worse offenders are the absentee owners who I hardly ever see. CLANG CLANG CLANG.... so I take one of my old bungee cord and problem solved. They will never know it was me.
I've retied broken dock lines, rewrapped flogging headsails, reattached canvas, notified harbor patrol of sails flogging on docks of which I don't have access, secured dock boxes, etc.
I don't think about "liability" because it's a silly thing to think about.
When has anyone claimed liability against someone who saved his boat...
I don't think about "liability" because it's a silly thing to think about.
When has anyone claimed liability against someone who saved his boat...
If open water is downwind,Untie the mooring lines and push it away from the dock ?
I agree about tying halyards. We all have to be good neighbors in the marina.
Many years ago I worked on a cruise ship as an engineer. One night I woke up in the dark, sat up and was trying to figure out what woke me. Then I realized it was quite, too quite. I was right across from the entrance to the engine room and normally could hear the rumble. That got me up in a hurry.
On the original topic, I've re-tied mooring lines and I even re-anchored a boat once. Heading back into a mooring. we had to go through an anchorage. There was a boat dragging, heading for a nice, big (maybe 50') catamaran, and past that onto the rocks. I asked the owner of the boat I was on to drop me off then come back and get me in his dinghy once he moored. I jumped on the dragging boat, let out about 40 or 50 feet of chain and the anchor caught. While I was waiting for my ride, a couple came by in a dinghy, looked at me, went around in a couple of big circles looking around, then came back. I asked if it was their boat and they said yes. I helped them aboard with their groceries. It turns out it was the first day of their charter, they had just left the charter base and come into town to get provisions. I gave them an anchoring lesson, they thanked me and I was on my way. This was obviously not in the US, but in Australia people are a lot less likely to give someone a hard time for helping out.
It's really sad that this question came up. Here in Canada, people just help out if they can and don't think about the liability.
I'd be thinking one of 3 things. First, I'd be inclined to do it anyway, and let him figure out how to actually prove I did it, particularly if I had made good friends with the dockmaster.
My second thought would be to record the noise, find out where he lives and play the sound back to him late at night.
It is romantic from 200 feet away, just not from 20 feet.
The whole thought about liability really comes down to how well you know what you are doing to solve the issue. If you can make an improvement, then I'd say do it. You may want to take a few photos with your cellphone to document the need. (Don't document the process and never admit to helping)
I was caught out to see in a bad storm, and was not able to get back to my campsite until the storm subsided. My neighbor secured all my lawn chairs and my portable screenhouse. Of course I went over and thanked him as I greatly appreciated him saving my camp sight.
i looked it up in the pirate handbook, chapter 6, boarding others vessels, line 23, noisy halyards......... of course your aloud to tie them off. a brassiere from a captured damsel makes a great halyard tie.
remember to say arrrrr... when boarding
remember to say arrrrr... when boarding
On our way up the coast last summer from SF to Vancouver Island, I explained to my son why I couldn't wear headphones or earplugs: "It is essential for me to hear every creak, crack and groan on the boat. I am so attuned to the sounds the boat makes when things are going well, that I NEED to hear if anything changes."
In addition, those dolts who let their halyards slap never spend any time down below. 200 ft, 20 ft? Right underneath it's even worse. But they never know... When you spend any time down below on your boat, you realize halyard slap and wire slap inside the mast is worse than Chinese water torture. May be the answer is to tie those dolts up down below on their own boats for 24 hours.