Lee Helm Question

Indysailor · Jul 28, 2012

I would not do that. Can you describe the conditions under which you are getting lee helm? That may help folks figure out some more conventional solutions.

What size headsail do you have? What position are the jib cars? How are the sails trimmed (i.e., might you be overtrimming he headsail?)

RichBone · Jul 28, 2012

Mine balances out with the bow and the stern turnbuckles adjusted the same- the same amount of threads in each.

justsomeguy · Jul 28, 2012

cb32863 said:
My head sail is a 100, and the sheets aren't long enough to go through the jib cars, not sure why the jib car track is all the way at the stern. Does not matter how the main is trimmed. As we have loosened the fore and tightened the back stay it has gotten a little bit better but it is still there. I don't have a larger jib, this 100 is all I got.

Like Indysailor mentioned, could it be you're sheeted in too tightly?
Maybe get another jib sheet that's long enough to ease to the point where your headsail can flog even DDW, and you've still got the bitter end in the cockpit. Or would that be the working end?
I think...

Indysailor · Jul 28, 2012

You don't have a fixed lead on the deck just aft of your shrouds? If you have one of the long tracks, I'd be surprised to know that a 100% jib should be sheeted anywhere on there except close to all the way up. Not sure of this, but my guess has always been that the aft end of the track would be for spinnaker blocks, but not having that sail on my boat, it's not something I could say for certain.

RichBone · Jul 28, 2012

There should be a block just aft of the shrouds for the 100. The track by the cockpit is for the genoa.

Indysailor · Jul 28, 2012

What kind of winds are you experiencing this in? I usually have a little lee helm in light winds, but once it strengthens, my boat develops a healthy amount of weather helm. And I'm having trouble understanding how you could have lee helm no matter how the sails are trimmed or that you don't have enough sheet; are you running them through the fixed leads on the deck and then to the ones on the genoa cars at the stern? Also, you should be able to sail that boat with the mast pretty much straight up and down. It's not really meant to be raked back like a fractional rig is.

Sunbird22358 · Jul 31, 2012

Is your boat the K/CB model or the fin-keel?
If she is the Keel/Centerboard model, how far down are you lowering the CB? If not all the way.....that may be part of the cause. Try adjusting the Centerboard to balance the helm.

RichBone · Jul 31, 2012

I haven't noticed any balancing issues with the board up or down on mine.
Has the mast tabernacle been removed and reinstalled? If it was turned around then that could cause a change in balance.

Technodad · Aug 1, 2012

Here's an out of the box thought....something dragging underneath the boat caught on your CB or CB line. This could prevent the boat rounding up...something to check!

Shoaldrafter · Aug 1, 2012

Lee Helm

Technodad said:
Here's an out of the box thought....something dragging underneath the boat caught on your CB or CB line. This could prevent the boat rounding up...something to check!

- - - - - - - // - - - -- - - -

A little study and reseach will find that the
original O'Day 25 had issues with lee and
weather helm.

This resulted in a wider rudder, then a
balanced rudder in latter models. A visual
look at O'day 25s demonstrate a growing
rudder. The reason was to balance
helm.

All the advice given is great, but no one
has evaluated his rudder. Does he have
the first version? Maybe he needs to make
or buy a balanced rudder to reduce lee helm?

So all the little things mentioned help, but is he
fighting the original design issue?

This issue was fought by the designers until the
O'Day 26 where they made the keel deeper and
longer to go with a blananced rudder.

The design for a foldup balanced rudder is on
file at the Mystic Seaport Museum. People just
did not order them.

So, he may always have lee helm with his current
setup.

Ed K
Addendum:
Yachting is a romantic relation of contradictions:
dreams and technology, Traditional craftsmanship
and hi-tech materials, scientific calculations and
maritime legends. Juliusz Strawinski

Shoaldrafter · Aug 1, 2012

Balance

cb32863 said:
Can't turn it around as there is a small pin and a large pin. If it was turned around, the mast would be backwards. As you said though, I never heard anyone say anything about balance issues.

I tried to find info on all this before I posted and as I said, never read of lee helm issues in any reviews or people talking about their 25's. Mine is a 77 and probably has the original rudder. I plan on being out on the boat this weekend and the winds should be over 10kts, so this would be a good test I think. As has been said, I may just have to live with it for now.

- - - - // - - - -

First, it was said, "Mine is a 77 and probably
has the original rudder." Conclusion is that
sailed under many conditions and is still
sailing to a happy Captain.

And it was said, "never read of lee helm
issues in any reviews."

It has been discussed on such forums
as this. No it is not going to be found in
print. But obviously, the designers and
O'Day himself knew of a balance issue
and tried several things to fit it. Some
things have been mentioned but I am
sure with the knowledge and experience
at O'Day others ideas were tested.

Understand the issue never made the
boat unsafe. Just you had to keep your
hand on tiller... And sailors who like tiller
sailboats do that anyway...

Have a good weekend. Have fun.

Ed K
Addenda:
"Sailing and boats have been a great way
of life, not easy and not very remunerative,
but very rewarding." George O'Day

Joe11688 · Aug 1, 2012

Rich brought up an excellent question about the mast tabernacle which is the same question I had. Has a PO removed the tabernacle?
We read so often about guys having to reconstruct the area under the tabernacle after they've found rotted core. If for instance a guy didn't mark in some reference points for the center of the mast before he removed the tabernacle, he could very well have installed the tabernacle more foreword than it is supposed to be. This would indeed give this boat lee helm.

RichBone · Aug 1, 2012

I bought a rudder two years ago from Idasailor. I still have the old rudder. The boat sailed well with it. There are issues with the stock rudders breaking. It's been said that it's not a question of if but when. I don't see why someone couldn't sheath it in fiberglass to keep it from breaking. That being said, I've got no use for it .....

Joe11688 · Aug 2, 2012

RBone said:
I bought a rudder two years ago from Idasailor. I still have the old rudder. The boat sailed well with it. There are issues with the stock rudders breaking. It's been said that it's not a question of if but when. I don't see why someone couldn't sheath it in fiberglass to keep it from breaking. That being said, I've got no use for it .....

Been there, done that. I had two broken rudder blades in my cellar for years and didn't have the heart to throw them out.
Back then I went down to see Rudy when he had his business located in the Freetown Industrial Park and Jeff his business partner back then molded me a new solid blade.
I finally threw the old blades out. I could never fix them. The blade I bought off Rudy is still kicking and working fine though.
Joe

geehaw · Aug 3, 2012

CB,
I have a 76 Oday 25 and it suffers Lee helm terribly most of the time with a 100 jib. I raked my mast 5 inches back and it helped. But the best thing I did is to to use the 120 or so jib that came with boat. When I sailed with the 100 heel was always around 30 degrees speed was terrible. I am new to sailing so thought all the trouble I was having was due to my inexperience. Maybe some of it is. I was always scared to try the bigger sail since I was always having so much lee helm and so much heel. One light wind day I decided to put the Genoa up. The boat sailed like a dream, balanced helm, seldom went over more then 20 degrees. And if it does, it rounds up like it should instead of going over to 45 degrees like it will with the 100. I have not used the 100 since. Now I know some of the problems are that the main is blow out and the 100 is mediocre at best. The Genoa was almost like new. Now I only sailed for three short seasons. This would of been the forth but lack of money have kept that from happening this year. So some of this lee helm might have been rectified with better sail trim, I don't know. I have posted previously about this when I first bought the boat,but never received any good solutions myself. Well good luck and please let me know if you find a solution with the 100. Greg