Lazy jacks-where to mount top blocks

[Hermit Scott]

I made the lower legs of this type of lazy jack. They are called Skip' Lazy Jacks. and they are retractable. http://members.tripod.com/~C22_Fleet_6/lazyjack.html
I lock-stitched and whipped the ends to the bronze rings instead of splicing. I layed my sail down flat and used a 2x4 to simulate the boom. Then messed with the dimensions until I was happy.
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/google/custom.htm?vp=09761 I am thinking of using the saddle type eye straps to attach the lines to the top of the boom near the sail, then lock-stitch and whip them to those.
I am thinking of running my reefing lines with with the ferrel type eye straps along the boom to keep them out of the way of the lazy jacks.
I would really like to avoid any lines slapping the mast.
Should I mount cheek blocks to the mast and run the lines up to them, or mount top blocks to some eye straps hanging from the spreaders a little ways out away from the mast? If so how far out?
I do plan on terminating the control lines on the mast not running them back to the cockpit.

 

[DougM]

I don't think I would mount blocks to the spreaders, just a matter of personal opinion.

On my Beneteau, there are eyelets in the spreaders through which I thread the lazy jack lines, and then to micro blocks higher up the mast. From there down to cleats at the base of the mast.

There are some issues here in that the lines chafe in the spreader eyelets, and need to be replaced occasionally. The advantage is that you can get the lazy jack lines completely away from the sail while under way.

 

[RAD]

Mine are above the spreaders and if you check out Harken they have the installation guide for there product

 

[RAD]

I found this in my library....look at page 2 chart A
http://www.harken.com/pdf/4059.pdf

 

[Roger Long]

I found this in my library....look at page 2 chart A

That's a crazy set up. They are in the block selling business and trying to sell you blocks you don't need and which will just chafe the sail. I have thimbles spliced into three strand dacron rope and the work fine. I did have to replace the nylon thimbles with S.S. though because I would pull the line through too fast stowing the lazy jacks and melted the plastic.

Mine deadend in eyestraps a few feet above the spreaders. The forward attachments are small cheek blocks on the boom and the running ends lead to cleats on the boom. Works great. The after part is a double leg on the boom. The eye splices there in the parts that go up to the standing legs attached to the mast and down to the cheek blocks have no thimbles at all. The less weight and metal to chafe your sail, the better. Less slatting also when they are slack.

 

[Bill1565]

I have made my own lazy jacks for my last 4 boats. Nothing as complex as you describe, but they have worked well. I used 1" cheek blocks bolted to the mast well above the spreaders, and pad eyes such as you referenced for the tie offs. I put my pad eyes on the widest part of the boom to allow more width for the main.

My equivalent of "the brown line" has a bowline, no thimble, ring or block. I put a cleat on the boom about 2-3 feet aft of the mast. When using the lazy jacks, I cleat the tail of the "brown" line on the cleat. It becomes the forward lazy jack.

When sailing, I uncleat and pull all lines along the boom to the mast. I have always had 2 rams horns for reefing and I hook the lazy jacks under the rams horns on each side and run the "brown'' Line back to the cleat.The reef lines are in the wind shadow of the mast and horizontal along the boom when in the stored position.

When I want to drop the main, I go to the mast pull the lazy jacks off the rams horns and secure the tail to the cleat, making the cradle to catch the sail. At home, I use a couple of sail ties to secure the main, slack the lazyjacks enuff to get the sail cover on. The "Brown" line is then 2-3 feet aft of the mast and doesn't bang no matter what direction the wind is. I am currently studying up on a Stack Pack to repace the main cover. Will let you know.

 

[Hermit Scott]

DougM-I am very hesitent to mount blocks on the spreaders, just because they are not designed to hold weight that way. They seemd only to be in compression. So if one is in compression and it gets pulled down on somewhere in the middle, it could buckle it.

Rad-in the document you posted, is that the set up you are using? I didn't want to use blocks touching the sail that weren't mounted to the sail. I intend to mount a micro block on my clew reef point though.

Roger-are your lazy jack legs pulled taunt while stowed? I was looking for a design that will not leave loose lines hanging. I don't have anything inside my boom, so all lines will be external to it. So I have to come up with a neat way to organize them.

 

[zeehag]

with my formosa i would want the lazy jax in place all the time --so the main, on a 20 ft boom, can be lowered without warning and prep in a big wind condition---i need to get info on how to do that...i saw it when i was a kid , but that was a few centuries ago and i donot remember well after the fi8rst 200 yrs lol--and was gaff rigging......

 

[Roger Long]

Roger-are your lazy jack legs pulled taunt while stowed?

Yes. The running ends are long enough that I can pull both main legs forward and secure them under the gooseneck reefing hooks. I used to set them up only for lowering the sail but I've started leaving them deployed most of the time when I'm cruising now and not putting the sail cover on at night. If I don't have enough sea room to let the autopilot or crew steer straight into the wind, I stow them to make it easier to raise the sail. Getting the batten ends to go up through lazy jacks is an issue on most boats rigged with them.

 

[rardiH36]

Roger-are your lazy jack legs pulled taunt while stowed? I was looking for a design that will not leave loose lines hanging. I don't have anything inside my boom, so all lines will be external to it. So I have to come up with a neat way to organize them.

Hermit: I will be at my boat today so I will take a picture or two. Re your question in the quotes: I used to pull my lazy jacks to the mast as Bill1565 describes which works very well. A lot of people do it this way or similar.

But over time I've become even lazier than my lazy jacks. What I have done is mark a couple of points on my lazy jacks with colored electrical tape that correspond to:

a) the correct length so that they loop under my sail cover with a little tension, but not enough to pull the lower edge of the sail cover up when the sail cover is on. Some people cut slits in the sail cover so the lazy jack cords can be pulled taught. I have not needed to do this.

b) the length that leaves a little slack in the lazy jacks when sailing so that the sail billows fully, but the lazy jacks aren't flapping around too much.

This said, my lazy jacks are made with very light weight 1/4" cord. The setup on my boat has no blocks, just smooth very light ss slip rings and eyelets. So when the sail cover is on, even in a stiff wind, it is not necessary to have them very taught. There is nothing to bang around. Nor will the lazy jacks do any damage to the sail. Things work great with no blocks. I've never had them get hung up at the slip rings/eyelets. I'll take a good look today, but in the three years I've had my boat with lazy jacks installed by a PO, I haven't noticed any fraying of the cords. Should last a few more years. (I am expecting the the eventual lazy jack failure will be the event which forces me to learn the bosun's chair thing for the first time.)

When raising the sail, I set the lazy jack cord to the b) setting which allows the sail to go up without the battons catching as long as I'm centered into the wind. When dropping the sail, I go on deck and cleat (which is mounted on the boom) the lazy jacks taught. Then go back into the cockpit, release the mainhalyard clutch but let the halyard out in a controlled manner. I can reach up, and for the first few folds help pull the sail leach towards the boom end. The rest of sail then usually drops almost as good as hand flaking. I go back on deck to pull down the last 10 feet of sail that doesn't have enough weight to fall naturally, put on the sail ties around the boom and then loosen the lazy jacks to the a) marking; ready for the sail cover after I get into the slip.


rardi

 

[Hermit Scott]

Hermit: I will be at my boat today so I will take a picture or two. Re your question in the quotes: I used to pull my lazy jacks to the mast as Bill1565 describes which works very well. A lot of people do it this way or similar.

But over time I've become even lazier than my lazy jacks. What I have done is mark a couple of points on my lazy jacks with colored electrical tape that correspond to:

a) the correct length so that they loop under my sail cover with a little tension, but not enough to pull the lower edge of the sail cover up when the sail cover is on. Some people cut slits in the sail cover so the lazy jack cords can be pulled taught. I have not needed to do this.

b) the length that leaves a little slack in the lazy jacks when sailing so that the sail billows fully, but the lazy jacks aren't flapping around too much.

This said, my lazy jacks are made with very light weight 1/4" cord. The setup on my boat has no blocks, just smooth very light ss slip rings and eyelets. So when the sail cover is on, even in a stiff wind, it is not necessary to have them very taught. There is nothing to bang around. Nor will the lazy jacks do any damage to the sail. Things work great with no blocks. I've never had them get hung up at the slip rings/eyelets. I'll take a good look today, but in the three years I've had my boat with lazy jacks installed by a PO, I haven't noticed any fraying of the cords. Should last a few more years. (I am expecting the the eventual lazy jack failure will be the event which forces me to learn the bosun's chair thing for the first time.)

When raising the sail, I set the lazy jack cord to the b) setting which allows the sail to go up without the battons catching as long as I'm centered into the wind. When dropping the sail, I go on deck and cleat (which is mounted on the boom) the lazy jacks taught. Then go back into the cockpit, release the mainhalyard clutch but let the halyard out in a controlled manner. I can reach up, and for the first few folds help pull the sail leach towards the boom end. The rest of sail then usually drops almost as good as hand flaking. I go back on deck to pull down the last 10 feet of sail that doesn't have enough weight to fall naturally, put on the sail ties around the boom and then loosen the lazy jacks to the a) marking; ready for the sail cover after I get into the slip.


rardi

I'd love to see some pictures of your set up. I think the system I am making is suited well to run back to the cockpit. there are somethings I just won't know until I get it all put together and use it. I don't know if the sail will fall into the jacks or if I will have to pull it down. If it won't fall down there is no benefit to running them back. Right now, I always put a foot on the halyard and eased more and more as I flake the sail. So I don't know if it will all fall down.

Bill1565-I like the stack pack the best as well. I was going to sew one together but I decided to just copy the mainsail cover I had to make it easy on myself, maybe do a stack pack later. I've never seen on e up close, but there seems to be more than just cloth making the structure of them.

So everyone is unanimous about mounting the blocks on the mast and not on the spreaders?
I had one other question about running lines back.
Can I use cam cleats with fairleads in front of a winch instead of using rope clutches? the cam cleats seem to be rated at 500 lbs. and the clutches are thousands of pounds.
My main sheet is held by a cam cleat, but it is after the winch not before.

 

[All U Get]

So everyone is unanimous about mounting the blocks on the mast and not on the spreaders?
I had one other question about running lines back.
Can I use cam cleats with fairleads in front of a winch instead of using rope clutches? the cam cleats seem to be rated at 500 lbs. and the clutches are thousands of pounds.
My main sheet is held by a cam cleat, but it is after the winch not before.

Hi Hermit,
I just installed Harken lazy jacks and had the boat put in on Monday. The instructions we good but I had some difficulty with their choice of stainless pop-rivets. After a call to Harken and redrilling six bad rivets, I figured out the issue. I have to get my sails this week and see if the marina got the engine started so I could get some pictures of my work. They did suggest widening the spread of the jacks near the spreaders with shock cord that was hog-nosed to fit. This would eliminate the batten fouling during a raise. I'll just stow the jacks back to the mast before the raise. Let me know if you'ld like a picture.
All U Get

 

[Stu Jackson]

Hermit, a cam cleat would be just fine for the lazy jack line, don't bother with a sheetstopper. You shouldn't ever need a winch on the LJ line. There's been so much written about battens catching on lazy jacks when going up that I tend to gag on it. Here's why: Our lazy jacks are led back and can be deployed to the mast to make everything out of the way and not there when raising and sailing. But because I do so much singlehanding, I've always tried to minimize unnecessary effort. All I do is pull back the starboard side of our lazy jacks and hook them under a cleat horn at the mast end of the boom. Then, when raising sail, I deliberately motor a bit off the wind so it's coming off the port bow and so blows the sail over to the starboard side of the boom, where the lazy jacks have magically disappeared. People who hang their mains up on lazy jacks are generally heading directly into the wind, which is why, unless they're moved up to the mast, will guarantee getting the battens caught. Just a little "keep it simple" trick I've been sharing for years.

I also agree with zeehag (WHAT?!?! yet again!:dance and keep them ready all the time. I haven't seen any noticeable chafe on the main from the blocks.

 

[flynfol]

I too made the Lazy Jacks from Skip's site. I found the spreader attachment didn't work on my boat(spreaders pivot at the mast). I liked the idea of having them wider at the top, but settled with cheekblocks just below the spreaders(hope the battens clear). Work well. I attached cheekblocks at the front of both sides of the boom and run lines aft to jam cleats(just in front of mainsheet bail). I can either pull them to stow the jacks tightly against the boom, or release and haul the"brown line" to deploy. My brown line is continous forward of the mast with a turning block attached to a single deploy line coming down the forward side of the mast. I haven't determined what to do with that line yet....lead aft or cleat at base of mast. The forward stow lines help contain the sail forward as an added benefit. I used 3/16 stay set and eye spliced all the ends(got REALLY good by the 6th or 7th splice!). Used caribiners from the "brown lines" to the jacks so I can remove my boom easier. I will post pics as soon as I return home.

John

 

[Hermit Scott]

AllUget-Yes, please post some pics.
Stu-I am the kind of guy that would rather have convienence than the utter most performance. I think I would like to leave the lazy jacks up while I am sailing. I would only put them away so I could put the cover on. Hopefully my mainsail won't get hung up but if it does, I will employ your method. You are full of practical ideas.
flynfol-I heard that splicing 1/4" would be difficult. Since you did it with 3/16" I will give it a try. I have nothing but time right now. I bought some thick polyester thread I have been whipping my 3 strand splices with. It looks ok but I want to learn how to do double braid splices.

 

[RAD]

Harken lazy jack system

Hermit,
Yes that is the set up I have and for the past four years on my to do list is to make them so I can pull them tight and out of the way......but as Zeehag noted having them ready at a moments notice is the way to go, I have a center cockpit so when the main is doused and the lazy jacks are slack I end up with a mess and what makes it worse is the full bimini so jumping up on the seats to gather up the sail is a lot more difficult.
I should note that above my spreaders is a padeye with a loop around the cable and not a block.
post pics when your done and be careful while aloft

 

[Stu Jackson]

AI think I would like to leave the lazy jacks up while I am sailing. I would only put them away so I could put the cover on.

I agree with leaving them up.

Why bother with the rest. Our mainsail cover is slotted to accept them. I never have to "put them away."

 

[Joe]

Hermit....... here's a system that is inexpensive AND simple.... that skip's one is too complicated.
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/lazyjack/lazyjack1.htm

My choice would be to leave them up while sailing....drop and bungee them away from the mast when the sail is packed up.

 

[Hermit Scott]

Hermit....... here's a system that is inexpensive AND simple.... that skip's one is too complicated.
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/lazyjack/lazyjack1.htm

My choice would be to leave them up while sailing....drop and bungee them away from the mast when the sail is packed up.

It looks easy but it takes two more blocks to make it. Not that big-a-deal either way really. I will already be putting two reefing lines running along the sides of the mast, I don't want to add another line there either. Once I rigged up the skips jacks on the floor and started playing with them, I think they are actually quite simple. I like how when you pull straight down on one line they deploy, you pull straight down on another and they retract. no gathering up any other slack. I am going to attach the top lines into one in front of the mast, so I can deploy them and cleat them with just one line.
Stu-The reason why I am making them retractable is because I just sewed a main sail cover together and I don't have a sewing machine to modify it yet. If I start screwing with that agian I will make a stack pack type system.

 

[rardiH36]

A feature about this thread is that there are many ways to skin this cat! All the variations work for the owner. I've seen some new ideas here that might be tried... like Stu's slacking and then pulling one side to the very aft of the boom when raising the sail.

Here's a couple of pic's:

- One shows lazy jacks with the cover on. Been doing it this way for almost three years. No chafing yet either on the lines or the cover. If the forum's photo kilo byte reduction conversion doesn't degrade the quality too much, maybe you can see the red tape wrapped around the forward-most port line. After the cover is off, I pull in the line so that the red marker lines up with the tie-off cleat on the boom. Is ensures that I duplicate every time the right amount of slack for raising the sail and then it doesn't need to be adjusted when sailing.

- The other shows the cleat on forward part of the boom. Its a small one. 3.5 - 4". This is the forward-most of the three attachment points on the boom and it the adjustment location. Note how the line is threaded through the center opening of the cleat. A stop knot at the bitter end will prevent the line from coming free totally. The red tape (in a different spot than the red tape above) this time is the other marker which corresponds to the right amount of slack so that the lazy jacks drape underneath the installed sail cover. No guessing. Saves a lot of time.

Hermit: Another consideration before you permanently install your system is where on the boom each lazy jack line is attached. When buying a pre-made system, the manufacturer will have guidelines in the instructions (which you can probably download without purchasing). However you might want to experiment. For example, I found that my aft-most attachment point was too far aft. In that location it was great for catching all the sail on the boom as it came down, but also the battens always got caught when raising. So I moved the aft-most point forward by a couple of feet which helped a lot. The leach end of the sail now flops a bit off the boom when dropping, but its no proplem gathering it up with the sail tie. Giving thought on how you might experiment without drilling holes in the boom, maybe tightly wrap some light cord around the boom several times between the boom sail slugs and attach the lazy jack points to that. The tight wraps and the slugs should prevent the temporary attachment point from migrating forward and aft and would work just fine for a day-sail.

As others have mentioned, I have not seen any need for beefy cleating systems or winches. There should be no significant tension on the lazy jacks more than just a light pull with the hand/fingers.

rardi