Jib Sheets, Winches and Cleats

[Ward H]

I chose the 135 genoa for my head sail for my first full season of sailing my O'day 25. We have had good winds almost every day out so I rarely unfurl the full 135. Probably closer to 100 or 110. I run the jib sheets through the single standup blocks, then back to the winches and through the horn clean with a stopper knot.
The winds on the Barnegat Bay can turn on like a switch. On a recent sail the winds kicked from 10 to over 15, maybe 18 and stayed there with gusts to 22.
I got caught with my main unreefed and the genny out at least 110%. I had done a loop around the horn cleat to lock the working sheet. I was on the high side and I let the boom out all the way to keep from heeling over too far and still got headed up in the gusts. Problem was the water was shallower windward so I couldn't head into the wind to reef the main and furl the head sail. We ran a quick beam reach for about 3 miles, hitting 6.8 on the GPS SOG.
We were heeling too far for me to be comfortable leaning to the low side to let loose the jib.
I was wishing I had cam cleats instead so I could just flip up the sheet to let it loose a bit. So I bought a couple of Harken 150s.
Now, where to put them? I find myself sitting mid cockpit, usually pinching the jib sheet under my bracing foot against the opposite bench, holding the main sheet in one hand the tiller in the other. I was thinking I could mount the cam cleats on the side of the bench, about where my foot pinches the line. This way I could easily set the sheet using hand and foot and pop the sheet with the same.
I also have been having trouble with overlaps of the sheet on the winch but read a bit on how to handle that. My one question was should I try polishing the rough surface of the winches so the wrap pushes and slides up more easily? Maybe time to replace them?
The photo shows where I pinch the line with my foot. It also shows the furling line close to the winch. It rubs the winch and has gotten caught in the sheet a couple of times so I am moving it outside of the stanchions, which will move it away from the winch. That should solve that problem.
Any other suggestions for cam cleat placement?
BTW, I seem to get the jib sheets tight enough without a winch handle. Haven't used one yet so I thought I would pass on self tailing winches.
Appreciate any thoughts.

 

[geehaw]

I have two winches on mine. One where yours is and one just behind where your second cleat is. In between them I have a jam cleat. I love that thing it holds well and so easy to undo. Light winds just go under one horn heaver winds go under both. Greg

 

[caguy]

Here is what I used on the Mac 25. I worked well for me and I could control it from the windward side of the boat. I use to also be concerned about taking my 200 lbs to the lee side when severely heeled. I also seldom used the winch handle but with this set up it swivels and was available if needed from either side of the boat. I replace the 16" tracks with 24" tacks.

 

[Jackdaw]

How about cross-sheeting? a half turn on the leeward winch, and then bring the sheet across the cockpit to the windward winch, up high where you are.

 

[Ritdog]

The furler line on my ex-25 is atop the gunnel / deck even with the edge of the cabin--puts it forward of all the stuff happening in the cockpit. The line runs along the cabin so it's out of the way for the most part. The boat has a dodger, and the extra line is stored atop the cabin on the handrail by passing it under the dodger. I would play with the exact location to see what is amenable to you.

 

[Joe11688]

I've no ticed that some O'Day 25s need the foresail up and working with the Mainsail in order to come about and be able to maneuver the boat well. Fortunately, my particular model seems to to maneuver extremely well with just the Mainsail in varied wind conditions.

When the wind is strong and puffy, I just roll up my gennie and sail with just the Main. rather than use the Mainsheet to spill the wind, Then I just use my tiller to head her up into the wind gradually as I see the dark ripples on the water moving my way. Of course,don't try this with a small centerboard daysailer. I did that years back and I'm still trying to look ashamed.

You should be able to set your Gennie up for the wind conditions and leave the sheets snubbed.

Years ago I read in Small Boat Journal about a guy who mounted open clam cleats in back of his winches. I adopted that idea.

 

[Brian S]

Ward, a couple things. First, you should practice going hove-to, to tuck in your reef (or shake it out, for that matter.) It sounds like in your scenario, heaving-to would have allowed you to drift down from the shoaling, and of course heaving-to calms down the fury...

My friend's Com-Pac 19 had rather large plastic clam cleats mounted on the coaming aft of the winches. As much as I don't care for plastic clam cleats, it seemed to work pretty well on that boat. Probably easier to release than a half hitch on a horn cleat.

And finally, are you letting the top of your main twist off enough in those conditions? You want to allow the top of the sail to leeward, so that the top leech telltale flies, as well as the 2 lower telltales, if you have them. The easiest way to do this is to use the mainsheet only to control the leech tension - let it out until that telltale flies. Then, set the main trim using the traveller, and also let go the traveller so the boom can go down to play the puffs, or spill wind if really necessary. This will keep the top of the sail drawing, but not be over trimmed causing more heeling. I've had a lot of good luck paying attention to this with the 192 this summer, except that I have to play the vang, and in lighter wind, the topping lift, since my boat is end boom sheeting off the backstay...

Similarly, moving jib fairleads aft will pull the bottom of the jib flatter, but will allow the top to twist off.

Because the wind up at the top of the mast has less drag from blowing over the water, it's faster, and generally a bit more acute angle than wind down at boat level.

Brian

 

[Indysailor]

I like the foot cleat, Ward.

 

[AWalker]

That is a lot of work, to continually hold all your sheets, and a tiller too. Get yourself a pair of Winchers for the jib sheet winches. They hold well, are cheap, and easy to use. A tiller tamer type setup will make letting go of the tiller a possibility as well.

 

[AWalker]

Winchers and a tiller tamer would make your life a lot easier.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Ward,

In addition to the other good tips above, I think you'll find that overall boat handling will get easier over time as you learn the prevailing wind patterns in Barnegat Bay. Once the afternoon sea breeze fills in for east to west, it continues to strengthen until near sunset. Reef earlier in the day in anticipation of the increase and you should have an easier time. When we were in Forked River, it also helped to sail south during the relatively calm midday before turning and running with the increasing wind, so there was never a need to beat into 20 kts. You may not have as much flexibility from Mariners but try to keep the idea in mind.

 

[Ward H]

A lot of good tips here. Got 3 or 4 more sails in, 2 using the 110% jib. That had a much better shape than the genoa.
Didn't want to take the time for a change in hardware since the season was nearing the end so I just practiced trimming the jib. The winds were strong enough and the chop heavy enough I sailed with jib only.
What was puzzling was that the jib seemed harder and harder to trim, especially on the starboard tack. I knew both winches needed maintenance but soon found the starboard winch had tightened up to the point I couldn't even turn it by hand. Had to use the winch handle on the last sail. Also found out the port winch doesn't crank. The handle just spins.
Time to call it a season and decide if I will do maintenance / repairs to the winches or replace with new/slightly used. I plan to try the Winchers and cross sheeting in the spring.
I may just pull both winches, see what I can do with them and if I can not get both working well, put on new winches.

 

[Brian S]

My friend went to overhaul the winches on another friend's 222 at the dock a few weeks ago. He dropped a piece overboard. Whoops! Then, he bought a mask and fins, and was able to find the piece buried in the muck. Score! Turns out that on the 222 winches, sometimes the plastic base must expand or something, and make the drum tight, even if the pawls are clean and lubed properly. So you have to sand the plastic base some. Similar thing happened on the plastic ferrule on our Aquabound kayak paddles - we had to sand the male ferrule so that it would fit into the aluminum paddle shaft. I have no idea why it would get progressively tighter, unless it absorbs moisture or something...

I have a small winch on the mast of my 192. I think it's a Barient. I should know better, considering I just took it apart this past weekend. Doh! Anyway, it came apart super easily, because it's held together with only a 3/16" hex bolt down the middle though the winch handle hole. Since I'm using a hank on jib, instead of the original wire luff furling jib, I think I'm just going to remove the winch. I need some more room to mount swivel cam cleats for my spinnaker halyard and might as well convert jib and main halyards to swivel cam cleats, instead of the horn cleats. The swivel cam cleats will be moderately quicker to set and release. But not as good to hang the excess halyard on once the sails are hoisted...

Brian

 

[cb32863]

I swapped out the pawls and springs on my 25 this past spring. Basically, they just needed to be lubed up again. Cut a hole in a shoe box and put it over the winch, take the springy holder thingy off with a flat screw driver and pull the drum off and you have access. Pretty easy to clean things up and re-grease everything. Goes back together just as easily and the next thing you know you will hear that ratcheting sound. Pawls and springs are pretty cheap from Defender too.