Jib sheets - Cow Hitch?

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

I have always used two separate sheets for my jib/jenny tied with a bowline knot.When I first started sailing, I used a snap shackle and learned quickly that when the shackle gets caught against one of the shrouds, I had to go up front to release it.I never tried a cow hitch and was wondering if anyone here ever tried it. A cow hitch will slip with unequal pressure, which you will always have on your jib/jenny sheets. I figure that you can whip or sew a short section behind the hitch and that might prevent it from slipping. Or..... will the whipping twine/seizing twine cut its way through the line?If it can be done, it would sure eliminate some problems with catching. Anyone here ever tried it?Tony B

 

[Ross]

Cow hitch or clove hitch with the standing parts seized

will stay in place. I wouldn't sew it. Just use some tarred marline and put on a good seizing. It won't harm the line. I like to use number 36 white nylon seine twine that I heat in the oven to about 200 degrees and pour a 50-50 mix of melted pine tar and beeswax over it until it won't soak up any more. Then let it cool turning it over several times to keep the distribution even. With laid twine if you need smaller stuff, you can separate the strands and have three pieces of number 12 thread/twine.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Ross...more questions

Thanks Ross, I figured you would have tried this.Questions: 1) What purpose does the pine tar and beeswax serve? and where do I get pine tar?2) How long should the seizing be?3) Why the tarred marline? Can I use wax seizing twine instead?Thanks, as usualTony B

 

[RichH]

Better to use a 'strangler' or 'constrictor' knot.

Only downside is that the knot will be 'permanent' and will need to cut from the clew cringle to remove it. But it will never ever slip.

 

[Ross]

Pine tar and beeswax makes the twine hold knots better

most farm supply stores that cater to the horse crowd sell pine tar for dressing hooves. I would make the seizing at least one rope diameter long. There is a whipping method that would likely serve you well. Middle the length of twine and wrap it around the two parts one turn and half knot (overhand knot) back to the opposite side and half knot again continue this until you are satisfied with the length and finish with a square knot. You can untie it with a sharp knife.Of course you can use waxed seizing twine I just never buy any. I have a spool of hand sewing thread for repairs.

 

[RichH]

There is another way to do this ... was done on 'old' sailing workboats.

splice a small pendant rope to the clew ... about 12" long.Join the pendant to the middle of the sheet with a 'sheet bent' then 'seize' the loose ends with waxed twine. Makes a VERY small knot, the sheet can be easily 'released' and no need to cut the sheet loose,,,, just cut the pendent. If done well the sheetbend will be touching the leech edge of the sail.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Thanks guys

Ross: I see that you use the standard seizing technique of one diameter long. Normally I use a double wrap (dont know what it is called) but its half of a surgeons knot and finish off with a square knot. I just wanted to be assured that it would work. Rich:The reason I wanted a cow hitch is because it has the least 'bulk' and resulting chance of hanging up on my shrouds. I intend to build some mahogany ratlines and they make a great place for the knots to hang up on. This is what I am trying to avoid.Thanks to both of you for your replies.Tony B

 

[Stu Jackson]

A cow hitch will work if snugged up tight

and we used that years ago before we knew better. You have to cut it off when you want to change. Also hard to end for end jib sheets without cutting. We switched to a bowline on each separate jib sheet. I have yet to try the buntline hitch recommended by John Rousmanierre, which also requires cutting off, but it's a smaller knot than the bowline with less chance of getting caught up on the forward lowers when tacking.Rich's idea is also very good for using a pole - hook the pole in the pendant and then it's easier to gybe the jib - no need to change sheets on the outboard end of the pole, just raise in the inboard end and swing it through.

 

[Fred Ficarra7897]

I can't remember ever using a two piece jib sheet.

I just use a single line, find the middle and pass it through the clew. Then the ends are passed through the loop and pulled tight. No knot, nothing to hang up, and NO WORK! I thought everybody did it that way?! Of course if you have wear at the winches and want to reverse your sheets you'll have to cut them. but it's NOT worth it.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Fred

You just described a cow hitch. I thought it might slip and that is how this discussion on seizing came into being.Tony B

 

[Fred Ficarra7897]

Must be a regional name.

 

[Joseph Shirley]

The Cow Hitch is pretty universal as Fred pointed out

and as Stu said, it will work (without slipping if made tight enough. The bowline is used by racing sailors because it is easy to untie after it has been loaded, so that head-sail changes can be made quickly without running new sheets.

 

[sandpiper10471]

Cow Hitches

I used to use a cow hitch on the jib sheets when I was racing International 14's and they never slipped. Since moving to keelboats, I have always used two sheets and bowlines. If the bowlines are tied properly - i.e. left handed and right handed - they will not hang up on the shrouds. I think that when I am ready to replace my sheets, I will follow your example of a cow hitch then when ready to be cut off, end-for-end the sheets and use bowlines, extending the life expectancy of the line. Frugality breeds creativity!

 

[caguy]

On both my jib and genoa sheets I inherited the sheets

permanently attached in the middle of a long sheet with a cow hitch. It doesn't slip or hang up. I don't have to tie or untie them just coil them up when done. The spinnaker and asymmetrical came with two sheets that have snap shackles attached.Am I missing something. I assumed it was a standard setup and seems to work for me, but I'm always open to suggestions.Frank

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Tony, I always use a bowline to secure the genoa...

sheets. Our knots would catch at times, too. The link below describes what I did to cure many problems, one of which was a knot catch point. Terry

 

[Joseph Shirley]

caguy - You're OK

THe spinnaker is most often doused by tripping the snap-shackle at the end of the pole, rather than let the Guy (weather sheet) run. That way the Guy doesn't get flailed out and drag in the water.

 

[Dave from Mi.]

Cow hitch?

Hi TonyB;I learn something new here every day! I have used what you call a "cow hitch" on my 160 Genny on my C30 for 8 years now, never had it slip, and with just a little work, remove it in the fall for lay-up. Been is some pretty good blows in Northern Lake Michigan and it has never slipped. I use 1/2" sta-set for my jib sheets and when it draws down with tension, it makes a pretty small "cow hitch"I will have fun using the new (to me) name with my midwestern friends in the marina;-))fair windsDave

 

[s sauer]

Light Air Sheets

I find the center of a long length of 5/16" or 3/8" soft finish double braid and tie an overhand knot in it, leaving about a 7" loop. I insert the tip of the loop thru the Genoa clew cringle and pass both ends of the line thru that exposed loop. Snug it all down pulling the overhand knot just thru the loop which is then close enough to the clew that it never catches on the shrouds, and because of the overhand knot, nothing can slip. You also need to make sure the smaller diameter line will hold in the jaws of the self tailing winches, or take a second wrap over the self tailer jaw.

 

[Warren Milberg]

Some time ago, Good Old Boat

ran an article about all the ways people secure their sheets to the headsail. I was astounded to learn all the permutations and combinations. I don't recall who the author was, but he really looked down on the common old bowline. He stated it tended to open when the sheets flogged. Not long after that article appeared, I was taking "Good Old Boat" founders Karen Larson and husband Jerry Powlas for a sail on my boat. Both noted that I used the bowline to tie sheets to the headsail. I mentioned to them that I use fuzzy braid Dacron for sheets as its easy on the hands, wraps nicely on winches, and never comes undone when used as a bowline for the sheets until you want it to come undone. I've done this for many years and can never remember a properly tied bowline coming undone in the wind....

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Warren , I agree

I have never heard of a bowline coming undone by itself. If they do, hundreds of books on marlinspike seamanship and knot making will have to be re-written. One thing I learned about articles in just about any magazine is that the mag. prints things prety much as given to them. No one usually checks for technical correctness. The article reflects the authors personal experiences and attitudes. Some authors go for 'sensationalism' to be recognized. Some authors write 'how to' articles and books on things that they never did before. They dont admit to it, but 'how to' stuff sells well.I am not saying that GOB does this, but it might.Let the games begin.IMHOTony B