Jib Halyard Overide on Winch...

[GorillaToast]

What Would You Have Done?

I was sailing close hauled this morning in 10 kits of wind, flying my 110 jib, when I decided I needed to get the scallops out of the jib's luff by taking a couple of turns around the winch and using the winch handle. Since I don't have a cabin top winch for halyards, I used the free sheet winch.

Well, befitting of all that Murphy has to offer, I got an override, and couldn't get it loose. I tried heading to wind, and loosening the back stay, but no luck. So I started looking at options:

1). I could just keep sailing on that tack until I hit the lee shore, or

2). I could get my knife and cut the halyard free, or

3). Go to the bow and release the tack, or

4). Since the wind direction was favorable, motorsail into the marina, and let the jib flog when I turned into the fairway.

Since i was close to the marina, and ready to call it a day, I chose #4, then #3, once I was in the slip.

Would there have been any other options I missed?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Once the sail starts flogging, the tack is usually closer to the mast so should have allowed getting the wrap off.

The reason jib sheet leads are below...you now know.

Sometimes pulling up on the stuck part helps.

How'd you get it off? Eventually...

 

[GorillaToast]

Once I was safely in my slip, I walked up to the bow and pulled the lanyard on my tack snap shackle. Had I not been solo, and had I not been in panic mode, I'd have gone to the bow while still sailing.

In retrospect, the sail was set just fine.

I'm a tinkerer.

 

[Stu Jackson]

First time I ever heard of where a snap shackle on a jib sheet is a good thing.

 

[GorillaToast]

First time I ever heard of where a snap shackle on a jib sheet is a good thing.

No, Stu. The snap shackle is on the stem. It's where the tack attaches, not the clew.

 

[JoyRide28]

There is an easy solution: use a second line, attached with a Rolling Hitch to the halyard (or any fouled or overridden control line), forward of the winch, then use a second winch to tension the line at a point before it hits the fouled winch. This will take tension off of the override. I have used this method a couple times with success...

 

[Stu Jackson]

No, Stu. The snap shackle is on the stem. It's where the tack attaches, not the clew.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[GorillaToast]

There is an easy solution: use a second line, attached with a Rolling Hitch to the halyard (or any fouled or overridden control line), forward of the winch, then use a second winch to tension the line at a point before it hits the fouled winch. This will take tension off of the override. I have used this method a couple times with success...

Thanks Peter. I'll give that a try - at the dock first.

 

[Don Guillette]

GorillaToast (where do you guys come up with these names!!!): In the situation you describe you were really stuck. I assume you cranked the halyard to full hoist so you've got nowhere to go. Probably you've learned to adjust to full hoist at the outset. Additionally, a 110 jib is not a big sail and you probably could have gone to full hoist without the winch.

There is a better way to deal with the main and jib halyard. I don't like messing with either halyard and the system I use is a mainsail and a jib Cunningham. My halyards were at the mast and I'd end up with line all over the deck. Most folks hoist their main and jib and forget it. They don't realize that the mainsail halyard is one of the sail trim controls used to adjust draft position and the jib halyard adjust both draft position and draft depth.

The cunnigham is an easy sail trim control to install -- I used the Garhauer smallest soft vang. Additionally, had you had a jub cunningham you never would have run into the problem in the first place.

How you work the cunningham system is you go to full hoist then back off a tad and make all further adjustment with the cunningham. Try my suggestion aand see how you like it. You can make a more precise adjustment with the cunningham than with the halyard. If it doesn't work for you just go back to the halyard system.

 

[wufibugs]

Don, have you a drawing or picture of how you used the vang to set up your cunningham?

 

[GorillaToast]

GorillaToast (where do you guys come up with these names!!!): In the situation you describe you were really stuck. I assume you cranked the halyard to full hoist so you've got nowhere to go. Probably you've learned to adjust to full hoist at the outset. Additionally, a 110 jib is not a big sail and you probably could have gone to full hoist without the winch.

There is a better way to deal with the main and jib halyard. I don't like messing with either halyard and the system I use is a mainsail and a jib Cunningham. My halyards were at the mast and I'd end up with line all over the deck. Most folks hoist their main and jib and forget it. They don't realize that the mainsail halyard is one of the sail trim controls used to adjust draft position and the jib halyard adjust both draft position and draft depth.

The cunnigham is an easy sail trim control to install -- I used the Garhauer smallest soft vang. Additionally, had you had a jub cunningham you never would have run into the problem in the first place.

How you work the cunningham system is you go to full hoist then back off a tad and make all further adjustment with the cunningham. Try my suggestion aand see how you like it. You can make a more precise adjustment with the cunningham than with the halyard. If it doesn't work for you just go back to the halyard system.

Don,

Gorilla Toast refers to an online game I invented a decade ago, (but never went live with) wherein a smoldering gorilla would pop up out of a toaster when the play won.

Regarding halyards and cunninghams - for the main, I hand pull the halyard to full hoist, then use the Cunningham when I want to de-power the main. I don't have a jib Cunningham, although I could easily enough rig one up, and probably will, now. On the day that I over-rode the jib halyard, I had purposely let a bit of line out to power up the jib, but when the winds built, I wanted to take a little power away, so I first tightened the backstay to rake the mast a little, then thought it'd be a good idea to take the scallops out of the luff.

Btw, what are you attaching the jib Cunningham to? A cringe?

 

[Don Guillette]

GorillaToast: There's money to be had in games and even sail trim charts and sail trim books!!

On the jib cunningham -- I attached one end of the soft vang to a pad eye I installed on the deck. Scollops are never a good idea in the main or jib. Send me your email address to (yankee3223@juno.com) and I'll tell you where you can see a picture of my setup

Wufibugs (now there's another name!!); Joe from San Diego would have a field day with some of these names if you ever got cross ways with him!! Anyway, I attached one end of the mainsail cunningham to a point on the Garhauer rigid vang, where it connects to the mast, but any connection point will do. What I do is crack open a "tinney" and contemplate. Then solutions just seem to come to me. The other end of the vang was attached to the reef cringle but you could use the tack cringle

 

[Don12364]

What - None of you guys ever RACE.
Take a half turn BACKWARDS on the offending winch and lead the line to the other genoa winch, or any other convenient winch.
Then just wind up and pull the fouled line back. If necessary repeat the process until the first winch is cleared.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Hey, Don you don't have to race to get a wrap!

But when you DO race, you learn how to get out of it pretty quickly.

Nice to hear from you, it's been a while.

 

[GorillaToast]

What - None of you guys ever RACE.
Take a half turn BACKWARDS on the offending winch and lead the line to the other genoa winch, or any other convenient winch.
Then just wind up and pull the fouled line back. If necessary repeat the process until the first winch is cleared.

Unfortunately, my winches only go one way.

 

[justsomeguy]

Unfortunately, my winches only go one way.

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

 

[Don12364]

GT

Hi,
That's the whole point. Just take the rope backwards by a half turn on the fouled winch and, using the other winch GRIND. This normally pulls the offending riding turn free from underneath the riding one. The fouled winch does not, indeed must not turn.

BTW Marine ropes are many times stronger than needed to be from the loads they are expected to bear - so this strong arm tactic does no harm to the rope and you will never break it by winching alone.

 

[GorillaToast]

Ok Don, I see now what you're saying. Again, unfortunately, there is not enough line left (less than 2') on the jib halyard when the jib is at full hoist to cross to the cockpit.

But, I'll remember that technique for future refence on future boats.

 

[Allan12210]

Ok Don, I see now what you're saying. Again, unfortunately, there is not enough line left (less than 2') on the jib halyard when the jib is at full hoist to cross to the cockpit.

But, I'll remember that technique for future refence on future boats.

Tie another piece of line with a rolling hitch to the tail of the offending line and run that to another winch.

 

[philwsailz]

Ok Don, I see now what you're saying. Again, unfortunately, there is not enough line left (less than 2') on the jib halyard when the jib is at full hoist to cross to the cockpit.

But, I'll remember that technique for future refence on future boats.

GT, that doesn't seem to make sense. I can see you having only 2' when the jib is DOWN, but with the jib up you have almost a forestay length of line now lying around somewhere on your boat.

Don't you?