Peterc has this nailed ... ROLLING HITCH, even a rolling hitch with many many wraps may be needed to relieve the strain on the line that around the winch..There is an easy solution: use a second line, attached with a Rolling Hitch to the halyard (or any fouled or overridden control line), forward of the winch, then use a second winch to tension the line at a point before it hits the fouled winch. This will take tension off of the override. I have used this method a couple times with success...
Scott, you might want to go back to the post above yours. He seemed to have run the halyard aft to his jib sheet winch, with a lead that was above the winch, causing the override.How in the world do you get an over-ride on a halyard sheet when you are using a winch handle? And how do you get so much tension with such a small sail that you can't simply pull it out?
Could very well be the case.Scott T-Bird said:Yes but very little that needs to be worked ... maybe he manually wrapped the winch drum with an over-ride some how?
Could he have started the wrap at the top and worked down before applying tension with the winch handle?
Sorry, meant to say " And Phil,..."GorillaToast said:Could very well be the case.
And Stu, yes, you're right. I must have had plenty of halyard left to go to the leeward winch.
All, please note the word "panic" in my OP. in those situations, I don't always think of all possible solutions.
I discovered last night that I can sufficiently tension the jib luff using brute strength with my feet against the cabin bulkhead; at least for now. After all I am on the plus side of sixty now. :-(
I agree with everything said in this post, Scott, and regarding the second paragraph, I refer you to the word "Murphy" in my OP.Scott T-Bird said:I always try to visualize the problem, or in this cas, I try to figure out how you got into such a predicament!
What really baffles me is that you were only trying to raise the sail a few more inches, so it seems improbable to me that you could get an over-ride by wrapping the sheet conventionally and turning with the winch handle. But somehow you did it!
Now that you got into this predicament, I don't see how attaching a second line with a rolling hitch and pulling it tight with another winch would help because I presume that the head of the sail must have been fully-raised and the halyard completely tensioned. You would not be able to relieve the pressure off the offending winch unless you yanked the head of the sail through the sheave and/or pulled the tack off the bow!
Since you eased the tension simply by releasing the tack when you were at the slip, I think you probably could have done that originally without any ill-effect. If the tack was released while the sail was filled, what harm would it do? It's not going anywhere if the head and all the hanks are still attached.
It seems to me that the only way the prescribed method works is if there is room to pull the offending sheet tighter at the working end. This works when trying to free a genny sheet because you can feasibly pull the working end tighter (to ease pressure on the tail end) unless you already have the genny sheeted so tightly that any additional pressure would rip the clew out of the sail.
I am also confused as to why an over-ride can't simply be freed by letting the sheet loose ... I do this all the time with my genny. I get over-rides frequently when I have to sheet in rapidly and don't have enough hands to do everything! Maybe it is because there is little friction on my winch drums. When I get an over-ride, I simply let the sheet slip through my hand until its freed, then I have to reel it back in. I'll have to study this phenomena a little more carefully ... the working end of the sheet is well below the winch and I still get them.
What happens is that when I pull the sheet rapidly when it is wound around the drum, the wraps slide down to the base of the drum (loosely) and then when tension is suddenly applied by the sail filling with air, the lower wraps jump over the upper wraps so that the entire wrap is on the drum, except with the lower wraps over-riding the tail end. It always slips off easily, though, as soon as I let the tail end slip through my fingers.
I get overrides in exactly the same way while trying to do fast tacks during races. BUT when the working part of the line comes under tension, it is TIGHT ! Sometimes it can be pulled free by hand, but if not then the the rolling hitch is needed to take the tension off to clear the override. I don't understand how you can just ease the tail, since an override is basically a messy hitch tied around the winch. Maybe it's a question of loads, winch size or line diameter. Most of my experience is with highly loaded 10-12mm line on 40-45 foot boats.I am also confused as to why an over-ride can't simply be freed by letting the sheet loose ... I do this all the time with my genny. I get over-rides frequently when I have to sheet in rapidly and don't have enough hands to do everything! Maybe it is because there is little friction on my winch drums. When I get an over-ride, I simply let the sheet slip through my hand until its freed, then I have to reel it back in. I'll have to study this phenomena a little more carefully ... the working end of the sheet is well below the winch and I still get them.
What happens is that when I pull the sheet rapidly when it is wound around the drum, the wraps slide down to the base of the drum (loosely) and then when tension is suddenly applied by the sail filling with air, the lower wraps jump over the upper wraps so that the entire wrap is on the drum, except with the lower wraps over-riding the tail end. It always slips off easily, though, as soon as I let the tail end slip through my fingers.
PS, the ways I find that reduce the overrides are:
1) less wraps, but this requires a pause to add wraps after the 'easy' slack is taken in.
2) start grinding the winch as soon as the slack is being tailed.
3) adjust your techinique so that the slack is coming in at a steady pace, not a fast-slow-fast-slow variation as you take each armfull. It is the slowing of the winch drum after a fast arm pull that allows the wraps to drop.
You're right. heh, heh. That's a particularly difficult feat and requires careful planning.I think you guys are talking about overides occurring while sheetin in headsail sheets. What I was originally talking about was an override that occurred while attempting to tighten a jib halyard with a cockpit mounted winch.
Just to clarify...