I am looking to buy my first sailboat and have found a 1973 Aquarius 21 that I am interested in. It needs a few repairs, so tell me what you guys think. "This winter has been tough on my boat and it will need a haul out and minor repairs before this sailing season. The price is $2000 if you fix it, $3000 if I fix it. There are no parts involved just time and effort. It is a 1973 A21 that was refit with a twin sail furling system (main & jib) sometime before I bought it in 2001. The CDI continuous furlers were completely rebuilt with all new moving parts in 2003 and they should last many years. Both main and jib were cut to fit the furlers so they are about 90% of original size but that adds to stability factor. They are old but they shape beautifully. The main is loose footed with an outhaul led aft for pinpoint control. All lines were led aft in 2005 and all running rigging was replaced at that time. Standing rigging is fine but I was going to replace turnbuckles this year just for safety. There is available a 1984 Mercury 7.5 electric start outboard that I have tuned annually but I’m having separation anxiety over it– we’ll discuss it. Trailer is fine for transport but needs cosmetic paint and lights – I don’t trailer the boat so it just sits at the marina. It has an electric winch for loading and mast raising. The problems: 1. New solid brass centerboard winch on hand to be installed. 2. Wiring panel needs ten minute repairs with a soldering gun – minor problem. All wiring functional. 3. Centerboard needs to be cleaned and painted. (Biggest job to be done) 4. Bottom coat needs freshening if headed for saltwater. 5. New carpet on hand for installation. 6. Hull needs bi-annual waxing 7. Deck needs sanding and waxing or paint if you wish. It looks fine but is oxidized on flat surfaces. Non-skid is fine. 8. Minor leak at gudgeons, just an annoyance that keeps carpet slightly damp – new one ones on hand to be installed. 9. Minor leaks from deck hardware that resulted from a relaxed standing rig – repair involves re-bedding and resealing maybe 6 through deck bolts 10. A few minor changes with new stern vents and through hull fittings for fuel and electric cables will stop a little more water intrusion but the total amount during a heavy rain event is less than a quarter cup. So all this talk of leaks is about annoying stains and dampness in winter but not structural issues. In summer the small amount of water just evaporates and is undetectable. I generally keep the boat ship shape and ready for visitors. Medical issues in the last two years have interrupted my normal maintenance schedule so the boat is not in the best appearance right now but still the best looking boat in the line. I’m pretty particular about its appearance and performance. The good stuff: 1. A good looking 35 year old boat with a very stout hull and sound rigging. 2. A customized double furling sail rig that is infinitely adjustable to weather conditions and rolls up for docking in seconds – no sail covers or bags needed. 3. This boat has high coamings and deep back rests, spacious cockpit for dry sailing and high safety factor for kids. Extremely easy to sail. 4. The hull design is wide and stable allowing for small heeling angle – the boat sails best flat on her feet @ 4.5 to 5.5 knots in winds from 5 to 15 knots. 5. There is an Assym Spinnaker w/accessories available if interested for $150. 6. All lines led aft, most hardware from Harken, Schaefer or Ronstan, original Barlow winches recently serviced 7. Running rigging, furling lines replaced 2005. Furlers rebuilt 2003. 8. Cabin space is enormous for 21 foot boat. Pop-top gives 5’6” standing room and can be raised if desired to over six feet with minor modifications. 9. Storage lockers under all bunks and huge lazarette. 10. Port-a-potty, galley, solar vent. 11. Battery selector, new 2007 105 amp deep-cycle battery with cold-cranking amps, two wiring panels w/charge monitor and accessory 12V plug, fish/depth finder, cabin fan, Am/FM radio. All wiring replaced from mast to stern in 2004. 12. Plenty of ground tackle, dock lines, bumpers, extra misc. lines 13. Custom built mast step and traveler and tiller 14. This boat has been rigged to accommodate my physical limitations. It is very easy to sail, trailer and maintain. Like me she is old, a little wide amidships, highly customized and surprisingly capable. 15. Her name is SEABISCUIT." What do you guys think? What should I look out for when I go to check the boat out? What do you think about the repairs? Are those things within my ability with a bit of guidence, or should I get the seller to fix the problems for an extra $1000? Any other information about Aquarius 21's would be great, thanks guys. Carl
Is this a good deal?: Aquarius 21
- Thread starter CPTCarl
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What a deal
Looks and sounds very good. It's always nice to find a boat with a careful and meticulous PO. Read more about these boats in Pat Royce's "Sailing Illustrated" book. You could Google the boat type and see if there's an owner's association or more info online. When we bought our first boat, a Catalina 22, it was "younger" but still the PO had kept here in great shape, he cared. That's sooooo important. Doesn't sound like there's anything you can't fix if you know which end of a screwdriver to use.
Looks and sounds very good. It's always nice to find a boat with a careful and meticulous PO. Read more about these boats in Pat Royce's "Sailing Illustrated" book. You could Google the boat type and see if there's an owner's association or more info online. When we bought our first boat, a Catalina 22, it was "younger" but still the PO had kept here in great shape, he cared. That's sooooo important. Doesn't sound like there's anything you can't fix if you know which end of a screwdriver to use.
- Jan 22, 2008
- 519
only one problem I can see...
is that you might get a speeding ticket getting to the boat to buy it. Sounds like a great deal, even without the motor for $2000. I am a fixer upper and would opt for the $2k price tag, and the opportunity to do the work myself since there is no additonal cost for parts. This will allow you to get to know your boat better. It does sound like this guy is meticulous, but his health is keeping him from doing what he wants to with the boat. Even if you requested that he do the extra grand of work, it may be beyond his health ability. Talk it over with him. If he is close by, it sounds like he might be the type of guy to give you advice as you did the work. Good Luck with your purchase, and let us know how the story turns out. Always nice to see a gem come into good hands after being in good hands.
is that you might get a speeding ticket getting to the boat to buy it. Sounds like a great deal, even without the motor for $2000. I am a fixer upper and would opt for the $2k price tag, and the opportunity to do the work myself since there is no additonal cost for parts. This will allow you to get to know your boat better. It does sound like this guy is meticulous, but his health is keeping him from doing what he wants to with the boat. Even if you requested that he do the extra grand of work, it may be beyond his health ability. Talk it over with him. If he is close by, it sounds like he might be the type of guy to give you advice as you did the work. Good Luck with your purchase, and let us know how the story turns out. Always nice to see a gem come into good hands after being in good hands.
Na, this boat is big trouble!
9. Minor leaks from deck hardware that Wet core? This boat sounds like a boat my dad and I were looking at in the 1970. Her name was Big Trouble. She was aa 17' with a cabin for $500. My dad says to his friend, "look at all the boat you get for $500". He says back, "you never buy a boat named big trouble". I think the core is wet and you might have some real problems with the centerboard. I would look for a Catalina 22 or an SJ-21 in good shape. You might get lucky and find one that was dry sailed (trailered). Good Luck!
9. Minor leaks from deck hardware that Wet core? This boat sounds like a boat my dad and I were looking at in the 1970. Her name was Big Trouble. She was aa 17' with a cabin for $500. My dad says to his friend, "look at all the boat you get for $500". He says back, "you never buy a boat named big trouble". I think the core is wet and you might have some real problems with the centerboard. I would look for a Catalina 22 or an SJ-21 in good shape. You might get lucky and find one that was dry sailed (trailered). Good Luck!
Are you kidding Jim?
This is a great first boat for someone. Able to sail in short order with stuff to fix to hone your skills when upgrading to that dream yacht. I would go for it. I sold my '73 SJ21 8 years ago for $2000 and it was not nearly as nice. It basically had no interior.
This is a great first boat for someone. Able to sail in short order with stuff to fix to hone your skills when upgrading to that dream yacht. I would go for it. I sold my '73 SJ21 8 years ago for $2000 and it was not nearly as nice. It basically had no interior.
Tim R. no I am not kidding
if the core is wet. You can walk around on it and see if it is spongy. You can also tap on it with a wooden hammer, if it thuds, it is wet. I had a 1976 SJ-21. What a nice boat. I like the cabin layout. My was sweet. I sold it for $2500 to a guy that never even seen it. The SJ-sa is a GREAT boat and much better know than an Aquarius 21. I not sure about the core but if it is wet, and I think it is, forget it!
if the core is wet. You can walk around on it and see if it is spongy. You can also tap on it with a wooden hammer, if it thuds, it is wet. I had a 1976 SJ-21. What a nice boat. I like the cabin layout. My was sweet. I sold it for $2500 to a guy that never even seen it. The SJ-sa is a GREAT boat and much better know than an Aquarius 21. I not sure about the core but if it is wet, and I think it is, forget it!
Re : It sounds very good for a boat of this age.
One think you can count on is Ross is almost aways wrong. There was this nice girl that almost bought a boat with a blown motor thanks to Ross. He is a nice guy but if he says go right make a quick left!!
One think you can count on is Ross is almost aways wrong. There was this nice girl that almost bought a boat with a blown motor thanks to Ross. He is a nice guy but if he says go right make a quick left!!
Okay, A general question for the forum :
What is a 21 foot sail boat worth for two or three seasons of sailing? Nothing fancy, at the end of the time sell it for whatever. My boat will probably cost me well over 1500 dollars per year for the years i have to enjoy it. I have sailed her for 9 years and I hope that I have another 15-20 years left for sailing. I may have to find a younger sailing midshipman. When I do and if he/she turns out to love the boat as we do I will give it away.
What is a 21 foot sail boat worth for two or three seasons of sailing? Nothing fancy, at the end of the time sell it for whatever. My boat will probably cost me well over 1500 dollars per year for the years i have to enjoy it. I have sailed her for 9 years and I hope that I have another 15-20 years left for sailing. I may have to find a younger sailing midshipman. When I do and if he/she turns out to love the boat as we do I will give it away.
Have someone else look at it
You might get a surveyor to look at it, on the trailer; or a friend who has owned a few boats. Take a close look at the keel and how well it is mounted after 35 years. It looks like a good deal if you get the motor and trailer for less than $2k. My experience has been that if you pay the PO to do work on a boat you are buying, you will have to re-do it later.
You might get a surveyor to look at it, on the trailer; or a friend who has owned a few boats. Take a close look at the keel and how well it is mounted after 35 years. It looks like a good deal if you get the motor and trailer for less than $2k. My experience has been that if you pay the PO to do work on a boat you are buying, you will have to re-do it later.
CPTCarl make sure the core not wet and
the center board is not too bad off. You might have to drop the ceneter board out of the boat to repair it. That is NO small job. If you really feel the repair are not that bad than wwhy does the owner want a grand to do them. I would be careful 2000 is a lot for an 1973 21' boat without a motor. I don't think it is a bargin!
the center board is not too bad off. You might have to drop the ceneter board out of the boat to repair it. That is NO small job. If you really feel the repair are not that bad than wwhy does the owner want a grand to do them. I would be careful 2000 is a lot for an 1973 21' boat without a motor. I don't think it is a bargin!
Back to the questions...
Carl Asked; 1. What do you guys think? Well you hear that all ready 2. What should I look out for when I go to check the boat out? Look at the decks. Walk all around them especially near the leaks. Do they feel spongy? If so what is the size of the spongy area? How bad is the centerboard? Can it be repaired without removing it? Look for signs of leaks around the centerboard. 3. What do you think about the repairs? I think they are not too bad BUT the problem I see is, why the owner didn’t fix them. I don’t let my boat decay like that. This show neglect and I don’t recommend buying a neglect boat. Sorry but you are asking from problems and the price doesn’t warrant the risk! 4. Are those things within my ability with a bit of guidence, or should I get the seller to fix the problems for an extra $1000? Yes you can do the repairs; someone like Ross can help you if you explain the problem in enough detail.
Carl Asked; 1. What do you guys think? Well you hear that all ready 2. What should I look out for when I go to check the boat out? Look at the decks. Walk all around them especially near the leaks. Do they feel spongy? If so what is the size of the spongy area? How bad is the centerboard? Can it be repaired without removing it? Look for signs of leaks around the centerboard. 3. What do you think about the repairs? I think they are not too bad BUT the problem I see is, why the owner didn’t fix them. I don’t let my boat decay like that. This show neglect and I don’t recommend buying a neglect boat. Sorry but you are asking from problems and the price doesn’t warrant the risk! 4. Are those things within my ability with a bit of guidence, or should I get the seller to fix the problems for an extra $1000? Yes you can do the repairs; someone like Ross can help you if you explain the problem in enough detail.
Price seems fair; it just depends how much
would a trailer be important to you. One of the main features of a 21' trailerable boat is being able to take it different places. Finding a used reliable trailer may not be that easy and purchasing a new one will set you back at least $1,500. I'm not familiar with the boat but judging from the pictures is a fiberglass production, nothing special model. It looks to be indeed well taken care off but it is old and nondescript. Don't know what part of the country you hail from but here in Florida I frequently see mid 1980's 22' Catalinas, Hunters, Windstars with outboard engines listed for $3,000 includying trailers. While furling sails in a 35' boat can be an asset worth paying for in a 21' boat its usefulness is at least marginal. The sails have obviously been cut and as reportedly they are old I wonder how efficient a shape the produce. A 21' centerboard boat that sails straight in 15 knots of wind don't carry much canvas. I'm sure it is worth the money but is no killer deal. The first thing I would recommend is that you appraise the type of sailing you would like to do. Make a list of desirable features you would need for the type of sailing and look for a boat that would offer those. If this boat fits your needs, it may be a great buy if not keep looking.
would a trailer be important to you. One of the main features of a 21' trailerable boat is being able to take it different places. Finding a used reliable trailer may not be that easy and purchasing a new one will set you back at least $1,500. I'm not familiar with the boat but judging from the pictures is a fiberglass production, nothing special model. It looks to be indeed well taken care off but it is old and nondescript. Don't know what part of the country you hail from but here in Florida I frequently see mid 1980's 22' Catalinas, Hunters, Windstars with outboard engines listed for $3,000 includying trailers. While furling sails in a 35' boat can be an asset worth paying for in a 21' boat its usefulness is at least marginal. The sails have obviously been cut and as reportedly they are old I wonder how efficient a shape the produce. A 21' centerboard boat that sails straight in 15 knots of wind don't carry much canvas. I'm sure it is worth the money but is no killer deal. The first thing I would recommend is that you appraise the type of sailing you would like to do. Make a list of desirable features you would need for the type of sailing and look for a boat that would offer those. If this boat fits your needs, it may be a great buy if not keep looking.
It sounds like a good deal to me
The boat looks well worth it and the trailer is probably worth over $500 by itself. If you want it, check it over good yourself, or with a friend, or with a surveyor, and try to get him to through the engine in with the deal. Nothing described is much of a big deal to repair, so plan on fixing it yourself. Some of the posts here have given you some idea of what to look for. A 21' boat on a trailer for that price is about as little as anyone can spend to get into sailing. The big question you should wrestle with is- is it going to be enough boat for you to enjoy for any amount of time. It is a relatively small boat that looks a little underpowered, and might not sail very fast. You could end up being very disappointed in sailing and in the boat, and want to turn around and sell it. You could lose interest in sailing completely. A good performing boat of a little more size would be a lot more fun and just as easy to sail; but would undoubtedly cost you a bit more. Thats something you have to think about. Good luck
The boat looks well worth it and the trailer is probably worth over $500 by itself. If you want it, check it over good yourself, or with a friend, or with a surveyor, and try to get him to through the engine in with the deal. Nothing described is much of a big deal to repair, so plan on fixing it yourself. Some of the posts here have given you some idea of what to look for. A 21' boat on a trailer for that price is about as little as anyone can spend to get into sailing. The big question you should wrestle with is- is it going to be enough boat for you to enjoy for any amount of time. It is a relatively small boat that looks a little underpowered, and might not sail very fast. You could end up being very disappointed in sailing and in the boat, and want to turn around and sell it. You could lose interest in sailing completely. A good performing boat of a little more size would be a lot more fun and just as easy to sail; but would undoubtedly cost you a bit more. Thats something you have to think about. Good luck
Get him to throw in the motor.
A replacement motor can be expensive. I paid 2K for my Mac25 '84 with trailer in really good condition and well stocked. The guy wanted 3K but agreed to 2k. He'll budge if motivated. Most repairs can be made fairly cheaply if you are a willing DIY guy. If you do the repairs yourself you will get to know your boat much better. You'll get plenty of helpful advice here. You can always resell and not lose much. Frank
A replacement motor can be expensive. I paid 2K for my Mac25 '84 with trailer in really good condition and well stocked. The guy wanted 3K but agreed to 2k. He'll budge if motivated. Most repairs can be made fairly cheaply if you are a willing DIY guy. If you do the repairs yourself you will get to know your boat much better. You'll get plenty of helpful advice here. You can always resell and not lose much. Frank
Sniff around on the Trailer Sailor forum
There's a link on this forum to www.trailersailor.com, which if you don't know yet, is devoted to small, trailerable sailboats. I used to own a 1978 Aquarius 23 (which I really miss), and I got a lot of help from other Aquarius/Balboa/Ensenada (all made by Coastal Recreation) owners. You might want to post your inquiry over there. There are a lot of A21 owners there. Check the cabin roof for sponginess - that's one thing you don't want to have to deal with. Almost anything else, save maybe the centerboard, is not hard to deal with. The original centerboard winches were brass, and sell for a lot of money on the used market. You can't buy new ones, so if this boat has one (you mentioned a brass CB winch), hang on to it. You can get rebuild parts from IdaSailer (I think), just not the whole winch. Hopefully, it also has a kickup rudder. I don't think the original did. You can retrofit one of course, but things like that cost money, and it adds up. I think that boat has a skiff keel, which allows you to beach it or ground it without damage, and it makes it very easy to trailer (sits low on a trailer). I have photos and some manufacturer's drawings of the A21 and A23. If you want them, send me an email, and I'll forward what I have. Oh, I paid less than $3k for mine (I think it was closer to $2k), with original trailer with working surge brakes and an original but clean Evinrude 9.9 hp. Since he (only the second owner!) was getting away from sailing, he threw in two horseshoe bouys, life jackets, flare gun and safety gear, piles of extras, everything to make it legal and useable. I cleaned it up, put a shine on the hull, and went sailing. Either I got a really good deal, or your seller is asking a bit too much.
There's a link on this forum to www.trailersailor.com, which if you don't know yet, is devoted to small, trailerable sailboats. I used to own a 1978 Aquarius 23 (which I really miss), and I got a lot of help from other Aquarius/Balboa/Ensenada (all made by Coastal Recreation) owners. You might want to post your inquiry over there. There are a lot of A21 owners there. Check the cabin roof for sponginess - that's one thing you don't want to have to deal with. Almost anything else, save maybe the centerboard, is not hard to deal with. The original centerboard winches were brass, and sell for a lot of money on the used market. You can't buy new ones, so if this boat has one (you mentioned a brass CB winch), hang on to it. You can get rebuild parts from IdaSailer (I think), just not the whole winch. Hopefully, it also has a kickup rudder. I don't think the original did. You can retrofit one of course, but things like that cost money, and it adds up. I think that boat has a skiff keel, which allows you to beach it or ground it without damage, and it makes it very easy to trailer (sits low on a trailer). I have photos and some manufacturer's drawings of the A21 and A23. If you want them, send me an email, and I'll forward what I have. Oh, I paid less than $3k for mine (I think it was closer to $2k), with original trailer with working surge brakes and an original but clean Evinrude 9.9 hp. Since he (only the second owner!) was getting away from sailing, he threw in two horseshoe bouys, life jackets, flare gun and safety gear, piles of extras, everything to make it legal and useable. I cleaned it up, put a shine on the hull, and went sailing. Either I got a really good deal, or your seller is asking a bit too much.
Carl, I hate to say it
but I really don't like the boat. I raced on a local lake and crewed for a guy that had an AQ21. I don't like the cockpit or the high coamings. Having to go below to crank up the centerboard was a pain. It is a pokey old thing and hard to sail to it's PHRF. It's stable and sails flat in light to medium winds but not a comfortable boat in high winds. I also think (this is just personal preference) that it has a very low RAF.
but I really don't like the boat. I raced on a local lake and crewed for a guy that had an AQ21. I don't like the cockpit or the high coamings. Having to go below to crank up the centerboard was a pain. It is a pokey old thing and hard to sail to it's PHRF. It's stable and sails flat in light to medium winds but not a comfortable boat in high winds. I also think (this is just personal preference) that it has a very low RAF.
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