Iron vs Lead Keel Hunter 45DS

[Vinny]

I think the opinion from Hunter was a synonom for " I dont know a good answer so I will make one up that will make the questioner go away and not bother me"
Happens all too often

Rich,

That's my point exactly. Hence the reference to a spin doctor.

I'm not blaming you Nick. But Mars makes the one that is in there now and if not Mars someone makes it for Hunter and they don't do that for free. The point being it cost something and $80k difference isn't a reasonable answer. That's almost half the cost of the complete boat.

 

[seadaddler]

Don't Shoot

Don't shoot the messenger I am only repeating what was said would have cost for a new keel on a 49 and that's why they switched to cast iron.
Try calling mars any ordering a new keel from them,I have no clue never needed to order one has any one here done this.
Nick

 

[seadaddler]

$30K

That's was said to me normally the 49 keel is $30K like Artboas said and the new coast of lead from who ever makes Hunters keels would have driven up the price to $80K.
Nick

 

[kloudie1]

Price of lead today is $1.033 per pound .. that is just the lead.. I don't know what the cost of cast iron is today but it used to be about 80% of the cost of lead.. So on a new boat with a 10,000 pound ballast, cast iron would save only about $2000 over the cost of lead.. New engineering, a new pattern and molding would be required to make the change, and cast iron requires a lot more heat to melt, so the energy cost is higher, decreasing the savings.. It almost seems trivial on a low production run for a manufacturer to invest in changing to iron on an existing boat.. the delta is what?? About 1% of the boat cost to the customer?? Hunter doesn't make the keels, so it may be that the supplier, for environmental or other reasons (health?) doesn't want to deal with lead and so is discouraging customers by using outrageous prices. That kind of manure is exactly what drives jobs elsewhere!! I'll bet there are a couple of foundries in Pakistan or India or Korea who would be happy to cast lead keels !! OK, I’ll relinquish the soapbox now !

 

[gsa]

Hunter Keels

Just to clear the air on this thread on a few things I had to dig deeper and found the following; Hunter definately doesn't and hasn't used concrete in their keels. When brainstorming ideas prior to Hunter's transition to iron keels someone did ask if concrete was an option but that was never taken any further than discussions. In fact the statement by MsEmee about Hunter now using cheaper material like the pre-Henderson era is very far from the truth. Hunter is actually improving quality by the upgrading of hardware and parts. This also includes wood work. Did anyone go to the Annapolis Show this year and look at the interior of the new Hunter 39 and the 50CC? Floors, door catches, cabinet and drawer hardware, etc. atonishing fit and finish and this is the value being adhered to across the lines.

When Hunter made the decision to switch from lead to Iron it was not until after exhausting and considering many other options. Lead costs had reached over $1.80 lb and were expected to go even higher. What many of you probably didn't know was that Hunter was actually for a while was having to charge a lead keel surcharge to help offset the high lead costs. Some of these surcharges were in the neighborhood of $10,000. Because lead costs were showing no sign of improving and their biggest competitors (B brand & J brand) were beating them up on price they had to make a move. It was however a calculated move in that Hunter looked for a way to use iron and still preserve quality. As Steve Dion said; maintenance can be eliminated by sealing the iron. The process that Hunter uses for their iron keels is that the keel itself is dipped into a vat which primes the keel and then in a vat of epoxy several times. This completely seals the iron keel. This is all done at the foundry where the keel sare made. Years ago the issues with iron were that the grinding and coats applied to the keel were done at Hunter and dust and particle contamination was inevitable where when done at the foundry where the keel is made and coating as soon as it comes out of the mold eliminates this. Because of the difference in density there of course had to be a change in keel dimensions however the change was so insignificant that with all the sail performance testing that Steve Pettengill did he couldn't notice any change in performance.

There seems to be a lot of things assumed on this board sometimes and mostly because Hunter chooses not to respond to posts but I would encourage you to pick up the telephone anbd contact Hunter if you need clarity or question why something has been done a certain way. The best contact that I have found there and a straight shooter is Eddie Breeden in their Service Deapartment.

gsa

 

[Vinny]

"There seems to be a lot of things assumed on this board sometimes and mostly because Hunter chooses not to respond to posts"
gsa[/quote]

All to true but with facts to confuse the issue there would be less to talk about. The part I like is when someone with a totally different boat answers the question with out any prior knowledge basis other than their boat.:dance:

 

[Mike Bucci]

Iron Blister

I took possession of a new 45DS this year and found blisters on the keel. The dealer says a repair will be covered under warranty in the fall.

 

[Steve Dion]

If you never did anything to a cast iron keel, it will last longer than any of us will. It may look bad and not do anything for the sailing characteristics of the boat but it will still be hanging there when they put us under.

With a little maintenance every few years you can keep it in decent shape.

If I just purchased a new boat like Mike B, I would also want the blisters inspected & repaired. Sometimes these blisters are paint and not rust.

Hunter is NOT the only mfg using cast iron keels. It is just the ones that we hear everyone complain about because of this wonderful website.

http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_metals.htm

 

[Sailgunner]

And I wondered what I was going to do this afternoon? I enjoyed reading all the opinions on iron verses lead. Thanks guys! Just to add to an already throughly exhausted discussion, my 30T is cast iron and after I pulled it the first time and put a barrier coat on it, never had a rust problem again, and that was many years ago. One exception is the very bottom that I can't get to because we use a trailer to pull our boats so I can't get under the keel. So the bottom of the keel just has some rust - no problemo.

 

[Vinny]

One exception is the very bottom that I can't get to because we use a trailer to pull our boats so I can't get under the keel. So the bottom of the keel just has some rust - no problemo.

That's the built in depth finder feature of your keel. So even if you could get to it, the next time you would haul the boat it would have to be done again.