ipad vs chartplotter

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Jun 2, 2004
12
- - Emery Cove, San Francisco Bay
I am surprised by the lively discussion!

The saying is " as the complication of a system approaches infinity, the mean time between failures approaches zero". IPADS do 'everything' right? I love my Furuno equipment. Sure, on a bright sunny day, cell phone apps are amazing and fun. At 2:00AM in the dark of night off, say, Point Sur? With 12 to 15 foot sea's and 40+ knots on deck? How about finding Phiefer Cove anchorage in the dark with thick fog? When a good Chart Plotter can make the difference, I want one that is designed to run 24/7 and is purpose built for its mission. For a back-up? Cell phone apps are fine. For a day sail when little navigation is realy needed? Use your IPAD and impress your friends. I recently did a delivery from Puerto Vallerta to San Diego, CA. The boat was a beautiful 47 foot sailing yacht with an amazing computer based system. It had Radar, AIS, and GPS, all run to a central computer screen which had an excellent chart program. Only problem was, it did not work. Something with the Lap Top had gone haywire and so we were down to the back-up, which ran only on batteries and which the face plate fell off the first day.
The Captain and I ran the entire Pacific Coast of Baja on my hand held Magellan GPS which uses an old, rough, World Map, but could plug in to the cigarette lighter power ports near the helm or at the Nav station. It did not show all the islands, but it gave perfect Latitude and Longitude and we had paper charts. A good sailor can get from A to B using dead reconing, a depth finder, a little time, and some common sense. So I suppose a IPAD has its place in Navigation. When I have my family and friends off shore I want the best equipment I can afford. If that is a IPAD for you? Go sailing:) If you have a choice, get some purpose built equipment and have redundant back-ups. Either way, the most important thing is to know your limitations and the limitations of your equipment.
 

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Nov 6, 2006
10,093
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Just remembering that Jessica Watson used a Panasonic Toughbook 30 for her little cruise.. It didn't fail.. They are about $3400-3500..
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
So what you are saying...

is to use the Ipad as a replacement to the chart-plotter which is just a backup to the paper charts/wind-depth-speed instrumentation.
That is sounds reasonable and as long as you don't spill coffee/beer on it it should be a workable solution.
 
Sep 25, 2008
1
Hunter 376 Mitchell Creek, NC
I'm a Mac guy through and through, love my iPhone, and will soon acquire an iPad, but how about this - use a dedicated GPS/Plotter primarily, and sounds like the iPad would be a great "second opinion" plotter during calm conditions and fair weather, and would certainly function great down below at the nav station as a "repeater" or to keep an eye on your situation when below and riding at anchor. Also, Otter makes a very durable/waterproof case for the iPhone. I'm sure the iPad is only a matter of time. I think it would survive a quick immersion just fine, but anything long term or deep would be a no go. Rain is not a problem for this case.

So in my view, these gadgets are nice backups, but not primaries.

Andrew
S/V Suncatcher
1998 H376
 
Jun 14, 2010
2,348
Robertson & Caine 2017 Leopard 40 CT
I'm curious how the AIS software on the iPad would work in areas with poor 3G coverage? No 3G = no data?
If you want AIS info you can depend on for navigation you need a proper AIS receiver to assure you are getting all the signals near your boat. An iPad depending on Internet feeds from shore stations won't cut it.

Internet feeds of AIS information have huge holes and depend on cooperative shore stations -- which are relatively few and far between. A class A AIS (commercial ship) transmits at-most 20-30 miles, and a class B AIS (yacht) only has a range of about 10-15 maximum.

Even in Western Long Island Sound where the population is dense there is currently only one station (in Northport NY) reporting, so most AIS class B signals are not going to show up on your iPad. When you consider places where the population is sparse, even if you can get cellular Internet the likelihood of shore stations being able to send the nearby traffic to YOUR boat will be spotty at-best.

So bottom line is the iPad is a nice toy and is versatile, but it's not a serious navigation tool when it comes to AIS.
 
Jun 2, 2004
12
- - Emery Cove, San Francisco Bay
is to use the Ipad as a replacement to the chart-plotter which is just a backup to the paper charts/wind-depth-speed instrumentation.
On Goliard the Furuno Chart Plotter is our primary, but we mark our course progress on paper during longer trips, and have good, up to date, charts on board for emergencies. Our Furuno radar can also have a chart plotter overlay. We have a, wired in, Basic Furuno Plotter on a seperate antenna and carry a Magellan hand held back-up with exra batteries and a power port friendly power cord. I agree with Andrew that "it is only a matter of time" unitil IPAD's, or something like them, will be merged with offshore capable Chart Plotter technonogies. And I think IPADS would make a fine back up even today. As of June 2010, a securely mounted, weather resistant, marine oriented, GPS is still a better, safer, first choice. When the running lights are lighting up a carpet of foam blowing accross the sea, and the anemometer hits 35 knots as you surf at 8 down the face of a wave. The idea of actually climbing into the liferaft in such conditions will seem sureal and silly. You will be glad you are not relying on a cell phone for navigation. However, On a foggy Pacific Coast day, I think I would preffer an IPAD over paper charts and a good depth finder. Everybody does not have to butter their bread on the same side. Knowing how to use the equipment you have on board, and understanding its limitations, are as important as knowing any other aspect of your boat. I am 52 years old so I have sailed since before chart plotters, or Radar, became avilable. I pride myself in having some "old school" skills but I am not afraid of new technologies. When IPAD/Apple gets around to something that can hold a candle to my Furuno equipment in good weather and bad I will be watching. Note that, currently, there is no fee to recieve the satelite signal. Other than the initial expense GPS has no yearly or monthly charge to opperate. No limit on minutes.
 

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May 21, 2006
321
catalina 25, 30 montauk / manhattan
great response!

deep down know the right answer however trying not to have to spend $$ on a gps which i know i need and trying to rationalize getting an ipad which something i know i don't need!!

- boat recently bought actually does have a gps however it's blk/wht screen and mounted inside the cabin with bracket which rotates into the companionway. with that set up virtually impossible to see from the helm however i can just relocate to the pedestal.

- have a depth gauge as well; however light not working for night but assuming just a bulb replacement. although works well sometimes gives a false reading (gps on my other boat does the same; something i can do to adjust?)

- will still use my iphone and of course as always i have my paper charts within reach.

thanks!
 
Jun 14, 2010
1
Jeanneau Symphonie Lighthouse Pt
I bought an iPad partially because I think it would make a great boat accessory. Charts, books, music, email all in a form factor more convenient that a laptop.

I already have a Garmin 162 older fixed mnt chart plotter that I don't use much as I like my gamin handheld 76csx better. And there are paper charts on board. If the iPad dies I'm not stuck. I was looking at replacement fixed chart plotters and the price just seems way out of line compared to computers. You can get an iPad and a couple of handheld gps's for less that the chart plotter. And the iPad has a VGA output option if you just want to put and LCD display up in the cockpit.

Yea, if I was going around the world I'd shell out for a marine chart plotter also.

Steve
 

RECESS

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Dec 20, 2003
1,505
Pearson 323 . St. Mary's Georgia
I think it would be good in a Nav station down below, as well as reading ebooks in a hammock or v-berth. I just would feel not so secure with it in the cockpit. I think it would be a good addition to a boat. Long battery life and you can load a bunch of goodies while you have a signal.

Price tag still scares me.
 

BruceC

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Oct 6, 2008
37
Oday 26 So. Orleans
Re: great response!

The false reading on sounder could be transducer problem.
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,590
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
My 2 cents

This is a fun thread! Here is my 2 cents worth:

1. We always have paper charts. The first time we were in the North Channel, none of the GPS's on the charter boat (including our own) worked about an hour out of Gore Bay. I don't know why, but suspect that it was just a particular satellite configuration, and the northern latitude. So we reverted to dead reckoning from our last recorded GPS position to avoid some submerged rocks, and the Admiral did a brilliant job of comparing the Islands on the horizon to the chart to find the turn to get into Bear Drop Bay.

2. We already have 2 generations of GPS's aboard, the most recent is the Garmin 76 CS, which has a small color chart plotting screen. So we have rugged and backed up covered.

3. I have the Navionics package on my iPhone. At $20, it was so cheap compared to paper or GPS charts that I could do it out of curiosity! Once the app is downloaded, the data is all on the iPhone - it doesn't need an Internet connection to function while navigating, just the GPS satellites. Frankly, it's a great package. I've been checking it against paper and the charting GPS with the latest updates on our home cruising grounds in the Erie Islands, and have found nothing missing yet. Although they are still building port data, the integration with the phone makes it easy to contact a marina, or make a dinner reservation by phoning right off the chart.

4. We bought a low end PC laptop last year to run the chart package Garmin provided, and connect to the GPS to up and download charts, routes, and tracks. The iPad with Navionics would be a better solution, but would not integrate with the GPS. So we would use an older PC at home for the charts and tracks, etc., and buy the iPad is I could take back the PC. I'll bet a waterproof mounting solution will show up in the coming year. Until then, I would keep the iPad below, the same as we do the PC. And the iPad would be a great solution for taking books along on a long trip. We are planning a 6 week trip to the North Channel this summer. Hmmmmm... Then again, the new PC, and the Campbell Sailor prop are already costing me a new granite counter-top in our kitchen (you do understand Admiral logic, right?) so more thought is required here. Maybe waiting a year is the right tactic.

5. The reason that all of the above are called "navigation aides" is that we always need our Mark 1 eyeballs, and mapping brains to translate any kind of chart into the real world, and actions to maneuver our boat. And many of the most current (paper and electronic) charts are not yet upgraded to GPS accuracy, so that underwater rock may not be accurately plotted, even though the GPS tells us our latitude and longitude within a few feet! And we need local knowledge to know where the sand bar is now, and whether we have enough water to get over it.

Continuously solving the whole navigation, wind, weather, and sail or power issue is one of the big reasons I love sailing. Doing it together is one of the big attractions for both the Admiral and me. I like the new navigation toys, but they will always be just a part of the picture!

Note: all of the above may not be worth 2 cents...
 
May 12, 2009
3
Hunter 28.5 Oconto, WI
Alot of great comments, so I will keep it simple...If you are going with the iPad option than carry a handheld GPS, as we all know computers crash, freeze up, run out of batteries,reboot at the worst times, and a Virus would stink. but it is a fun toy!
Good Luck and happy sailing.
 
Nov 30, 2007
276
Hunter 36 Forked River, NJ
Very interesting thread. We've all got different sailing habits, plus different needs and uses for our navigation equipment, not to mention our differing propensities to geekdom.

Most of where I sail is line-of sight navigation, but I'm content with my lower-end Raymarine A65 chartplotter for real-time approximation of water depth and less-than-ideal conditions. It also provides an anchor alarm, gives me SOG, allows me to place waypoints and track my trips, and tide data for where I sail, all from the same screen.

I've considered the advantages of using a PC for chartplotting, and decided it would only be practical for me as a backup. I don't spend enough time under sail and away from the helm as to use a cabin-based navigation station. I could be wrong, but I'm not sure any laptop is very energy efficient to stay on over the course of a long daysail. The potential of recharging the laptop at the expense of draining my boat batteries might cause me to lose helm navigation or nav lights, or the starter to the point of not making it home. I have never looked into adding battery power. I don't know where I would locate a third battery, and have not been interested enough in a power upgrade to research what other costs and changes might be necessary.

I would tend not to trust a laptop because it will never be as sturdy, waterproof or secure as helm instruments without paying more than a practical chartplotter.

The only other gain I personally would enjoy from a better chartplotter might be satellite weather. Since I'm never more than a few miles from land, I have the weather channel bookmarked on my phone to my sailing grounds, and can dial up a weather map in a minute whenever weather starts to look a little suspect.

That said, how I would define myself as a sailor an cruiser expands and changes over time. With new adventures and maybe a bigger budget, I might define different "needs." When it comes down to it, I sail for the same reasons I fell in love with sailing on a Sunfish as a kid. No matter how sophisticated the setup, if I can achieve that, I'm happy.
 

MeGeek

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Jun 13, 2010
12
ODay 34 White Rocks Marina
Any one with an iPhone must try the nave app. This weekend we turned on the track feature and later I wax able to email / Facebook it ...... Very intesting innovations coming out all the time
 
May 18, 2010
8
Morgan Catalina 45 CC Kemah
Just remember Apple are playing at this as are most of their apps.
Garmin have been doing this for years and are experts. The few Apple items I've owned have gone belly up eventually so put that with a marine environment and you will be lleft on the rocks! I know what I would put my trust in, the profesionals, not the amateurs.
 

gpac00

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Jun 15, 2010
2
Custom Herreshoff Brisbane
I have an iPad running in my boat. For coastal cruising I see the priority of useage something like:

1. Internet connection for weather radar
2. Ready availability of email
3. Music database (iPod)
4. Backup in case chart plotter fails
 
Jun 16, 2010
495
In search of my next boat Palm Harbor, FL
For coastal cruising, using the Navonics app for the iPhone works fine. As someone mentioned, mine goes in a quart size freezer ziplock bag (a whole box of them is cheaper than a specifically made one). I use the freezer bags cause they are heavier than the normal bags. I have been doing this for years, and never had a problem.

When I get my iPad up and running with the Navionics app, I will probably do the same thing with gallon size bags, but I also saw specific water bags @ http://www.drycase.com/

I might actually break down and buy one...

BTW- the iPad GPS is a real GPS chip, and will work independant of WiFi or 3G.
 
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