ipad vs chartplotter

[dlewis812]

no gps on boat i bought recently. planning to buy new gps/chartplotter however in meantime have been using my iphone running the navionics app (snapit makes a mount for the pedestal). after using this set up now thinking of just buying an ipad instead of a new gps. i've found this app to work incredibly well; also control the music and at night can use it to watch movies etc. also certainly less $$$

obvious issue would be weather (water/sun etc) however i'm thinking someone out there has come up with some type of cover. also, not sure how the new data plan will be a problem (no more unlimited data?).

thoughts?

 

[mcaswell]

Not sure how well this device would hold up in rugged marine conditions, but as for data, that's not a problem... the Navionics app (at least the iPhone version... I'm assuming the ipad version works the same) stores all the map data locally, so data access is not needed. You do, however, need the 3g version of the ipad, since the wifi version does not have gps.

--Michael

 

[donker]

Right, Michael. Going to Mexico on the HaHa and going with iPad. Have been using Navionics and NaviX both on iPhone and works great. But moving to an iPad is like a whole new deal. Was thinking about buying a used Garmin AIS, but discovered that NaviX has a program for that. Not being smug, by any means, but I'm betting there will be a lot of folks kicking themselves within a few years for buying a lot of pricy single-purpose instruments when for all except serious offshore you can do most of it compliments of Steve Jobs...

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thing to consider

...is not putting all your eggs in one basket.

Think it out.

 

[donker]

Re: Thing to consider

I don't think I am. Use of apps by many different developers (e.g., Navionics and NaviX, not to mention Tides, Bouys and others just for sailors) seems to be allowing for redundancy at a fraction of the cost. And the increased trend towards adoption of NMEA 2000 architecture allows for much greater interface of multiple manufacturers. Not sure what you mean unless you're concerned about the dominance of Apple products in leading the way...

 

[RECESS]

I would feel much better about having a case that is designed for a marine environment vs. a case that is not. There are cell phones that are designed for rough treatment during camping, hiking, and boating. The iphone and ipad are not on that list. I bet running the programs is not a problem for either a chartplotter or an ipad. Only one is designed for a marine environment.

 

[donker]

Agreed on that point. At least I'm not going to argue with someone with that CV!

 

[sinnettc]

I'm curious how the AIS software on the iPad would work in areas with poor 3G coverage? No 3G = no data?

 

[donker]

This, from a prominent tech writer: "Update: Apple's vague announcement wording and technical spec on its site have left people guessing about whether the iPad has a true GPS chip, and if so, on what models. My take on the spec: Only the $629 (and up) WiFi + 3G models will have it. It will be an AGPS chip - a true GPS chip that is assisted by cellular and WiFi signals. That doesn't mean it's a low-quality GPS chip that needs help. AGPS actually provides superior speed and location (think indoors) capability."

 

[kloudie1]

One small splash of salt water and POOF the magic smoke that makes it work, is out of the box.. I have seen cell phones and video cameras and other small electronics immediately go belly up with very small splashes of salt water.. If it can pass a submersion test, then I might trust it..

 

[dlewis812]

http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/apple-ipad-3g-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php

obviously not water proof but....

 

[Snotter]

It makes just too much sense to use a general purpose PC as the hub for all the electronics on a boat. Marine grade PCs are out there--check panbo.com. The only thing that is hindering the migration is corporate greed. It will be great when they start making usb or WiFi based transducers.

 

[sailaway78]

If you depend on 3G, or WiFi

If you depend on any phone signal there are many areas where you will not have any signal at all. There were a couple of areas on the east coast, not long ago when I was there, where one provider has it all, and nothing else will work. Something to do with leasing towers to other providers. Cell phone signal is far too spotty and undependable for me. So, why not just buy a real chartplotter, with built in charts, made for the marine environment and be done with it. I think that there are a lot of you guys who just like to have all the latest in technology. If thats what rings your chime go for it. But I can almost guarantee that if you do much traveling and rely only on cell phone service for your navigation, you will at some point be without.

 

[RECESS]

These models of GPS software use the GPS of the iPhone and iPad. The 3G aspect only helps the GPS get a fix much faster than using the GPS by itself. It will still get a fix in the same time it takes a chartplotter to do so without a cell signal. Navionics once installed is local to the iPad, it is there all the time and operates with the internal GPS. You do not have to have a cell phone plan to use the GPS. I have a HTC in my truck that is not connected to any cell plan and I use it just for street GPS.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Quick fix for the marine environment

We had a similar problem getting our commercial laptops to work in desert storm/shield.
The quick solution was to put them in a gallon zip-lock bag along with all the floppies that you might need. Zip her up and pray that the heat did not take them out. You can tape/rubber band the plastic so there is a clear view of the screen and type throught the plastic.
While not an optimal (by any means) solution, it does work. And as Mr. Murphy says; "If it is stupid but it works, it ain't stupid"
100 MPH tape (aka duct tape from Ranger Joe's that meets milspec) and ziplock bags cut up to make a nice form fitting container with a hole to let the cooling air in was another option. Had to use some packing foam as an air filter (100 MPH taped of course) on both ends.

Bottom line is you can make most things marine proof with 100 MHP tape, baggies, and/or condoms.

 

[VinnieVeneer]

I'm an Apple fan, though I don't have an iPad...yet. I've seen Navionics on it, and it's slick. But I want to comment on the "all the eggs in one basket" comment. Using only an iPad for navigation on a boat is asking for trouble. What about having a back-up handheld gps? or two?

The iPad is slick and nice, so slick and nice that it could easily be dropped or slip out someone's grasp and oops! "splash" .. overboard it goes.

Also, Apple products are not seawater friendly at all. Think about it. A little salt spray and your all-in-one GPS/Movie/Book entertainment center is now... not very heavy ballast.

Just my two cents.

Fair winds, all.

Vinnie

 

[John Nantz]

Still Old School

Had the opportunity to borrow an iPad for a couple weeks and it was really, really cool. Not really into game playing but wound up playing one of the war games and was hooked. It's a really neat item because of the form factor and the touch screen.

One thing I noticed, though, it did heat up when game playing. Granted, some games are a heavy resource user. Solitaire probably not so much. Electronics don't like heat so if what ever one uses causes it to heat up just make sure it has enough cool air to negate the heat. Fortunately for us here we have yet to reach 75 degrees this year. The rain tends to have a cooling effect.

With regard to navigation, though, I'm still old school. Read: "paper charts". I always have charts along. I've been burned a couple times with the electrical system not working properly and wouldn't you know it, at the worst possible time. As they say in flying: "trouble comes in bunches", and it does.

Posted once before about this guy single handing in his Baba 40 from Hawaii to Alaska when a few days out - no turning back - his coffee cup spilled over on his laptop. And guess what he was using for navigation? Yup, now it was toast. Had all his eggs on one basket, or almost. He had just got his ham licence before leaving Hawaii and thanks to it he was able to get weather forecasts and other information.

Based on personal experience and others, I would suggest using any electronic navigation devices as a backup to paper, not the other way around.

If it was me and I had an iPad, which I would like, it would stay down below except for, say, when a more complicated navigation situation arrose. And that tends not to happen very often.

Also, maybe I'm not your average sailor because I'm just not hung up on having go have the latest gadget for use with navigation.

The other thing I would do is to run it off a true sine power source and not a modified sine source. There's too much money involved and if one has a lot of personal files you certainly don't want to loose them to a glitch. Lesson learned: Back-up your files!!! And don't ask me how I learned this lesson!

 

[JVB]

I have read about this same argument on aviation forums. Most pilots eventually come down on the side of dedicated navigation electronics from Lowrance, Garmin, or others. The overarching problem with general purpose electronics adapted for navigation use is reliability. Often the screens are too hard to read in direct sunlight. The connectors between various pieces don't hold up. And there are often several connecting wires. The operating system has bugs and needs to be rebooted. Static electricity, from a map I unfolded, zapped the program in my buddy's AnyWhere Map making the unit unusable until the software was reloaded from a computer.

The dedicated systems don't take so much learning or so much TLC to keep them operating. My Garmin 376C is submersible to 1 meter for 30 minutes. Try just splashing your iPhone for five minutes without a case that obstructs key access and screen viewing.

 

[kenn]

Good points from everybody.

I was an early adopter of the first ASUS eee PC701, which I intend to press into service on our tiny boat, and I'm keeping an eye on their first tablet model, the eee T91, which is the first of what I expect will be several small tablet PCs to challenge the iPad.

It sure seems that there would be a market for a waterproof, sunlight-visible, high-efficiency12VDC-powered tablet PC for use in the field, on boats, in planes, etc. With a suitably robust operating system, solid-state drive, slots for USB and flash, built-in GPS, bluetooth, wifi. Who will be first to make one?

 

[sailor164]

However, if you look at the price diffenence, the functionality, and the fact that serious cruisers navigate by PC, I think the IPAD is laughing at the rediculous prices you have top pay for chartplotters.