Insurance Survey

[RoyS]

Four years ago I had an insurance survey done on my 1980 boat. This resulted in my obtaining a competitive insurance quote for an agreed upon value offer that I happily accepted. However, over the next four years the renewal price for that same policy increased 32%. I tried shopping around, including BoatUS, and every insurance company stated that they needed a survey that was no older than two years. I paid $400 for the survey four years ago. My questions to the forum are as follows: Do you have to obtain a survey every two years for your agreed value policy? How much does it cost you for the survey?

 

[kappykaplan]

I had to get a condition and value survey for insurance purposes at the half-way point of my 10-yr boat loan. Paid the loan off about two years early. The insurance company (Markel America) did not ask me to get another condition and value survey last year. Pretty sure I paid around $400 for the 2013 survey. Good luck.

 

[JRT]

I did not on our new to us C310 this year. BoatUs, I already had an O'day 25 insured with them for 2 years for a agreed value ($4,500). My agreed value was a few thousand less then what I paid for the boat, I paid cash and do not have a loan. BoatUs reminded me that if I bought major improvements (sails, electronics, etc) to submit receipts for them and they would adjust the value up. Not sure if because I bought on the low end of the price for what C310s were advertised for and requested a slightly lower agreed value if that helped or not.

 

[dlochner]

I've never had to have a boat resurveyed after the initial survey. Is your current insurance company asking for a new survey?

Ultimately it will be a cost issue. What's the pay back period for the survey? If it is one or two years then it might be worth the money for the survey.

 

[Ken Cross]

We had a survey when we purchased our current boat (1989 Hunter 30G) and our insurance company (Boat US) told us they didn't need or want a survey for our boat. Dumbfounded I had spent $650 plus haulout and hang fees almost $1,000 wasted except finding some minor things I hadn't seen yet to fix. He missed the major stuff.

Ken

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

Bought new 2007 41 DS in 2008 and used 2011 50AC in 2015. 41 insured by Boat US and 50 presently insured by New Hampshire. Have NEVER gotten a survey. Also both boats are financed!

 

[sail sfbay]

A couple of years ago I changed changed boat insurer to BoatUS on a 2004 Hunter 386 at an agreed value above the appraised value based on verbal list of improvements without a survey. I never had to get a survey every 2 years in 25 years of boat (sailboats, power boat, ski boat) ownership to maintain insurance.

 

[RoyS]

After I got the survey four years ago my insurance company provided an acceptable quote which I took. They did did not ask for another survey over the next four years but the cost of the policy increased by 32%. I recently tried to get competitive quotes through my current agent and another local agency as well. I discovered that both of these agencies use the same regional outlet for all boat insurance quotes. It was therefore no surprise that they both came back with the same "get another survey" response. I then contacted Boat US and Pantaenius who advertise on line and was told that to get insurance I must have a survey no older than two years. I might add that I have never filed a claim. My boat is 39 years old and must have crossed some invisible and non negotiable line requiring a survey every two years or else outrageous annual increases for staying with the same insurer. Thinking of giving up on agreed value insurance and just looking for liability insurance to satisfy the marina next year.

 

[dlochner]

After I got the survey four years ago my insurance company provided an acceptable quote which I took. They did did not ask for another survey over the next four years but the cost of the policy increased by 32%. I recently tried to get competitive quotes through my current agent and another local agency as well. I discovered that both of these agencies use the same regional outlet for all boat insurance quotes. It was therefore no surprise that they both came back with the same "get another survey" response. I then contacted Boat US and Pantaenius who advertise on line and was told that to get insurance I must have a survey no older than two years. I might add that I have never filed a claim. My boat is 39 years old and must have crossed some invisible and non negotiable line requiring a survey every two years or else outrageous annual increases for staying with the same insurer. Thinking of giving up on agreed value insurance and just looking for liability insurance to satisfy the marina next year.

I'm a little confused. Is the new survey required because you are changing insurers and the insurers want a current survey? Or are the new insurers requiring a survey every 2 years in order to continue to be insured?

 

[DougM]

I am the original owner of my boat. My insurer required a survey at age 10, and then according to the paperwork, every five years thereafter. As I recall, the cost was $400-$500. Over the years, my annual insurance cost has not increased significantly. Agreed value has changed somewhat.
I can imagine that my costs are less for a freshwater boat that is “up north” and only in the water around 5 months annually, than for a saltwater boat in the water year around in hurricane country.

 

[JRT]

Is agreed value in line with the market, or are you trying to get it covered above market value significantly? I don't have enough time with boat insurance to be truthful, usually on the small power boats just did minimum and assume I'd lose them and move on. The C310 is a different story for sure now. I really wanted to move it to my USAA insurance but they were really high so I stuck with BoatUs.

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

All of my other insurance is also with USAA. I also found them not to be competitive on boat insurance. One other issue is the location of the boat. Boat US was best for Florida, but not for New York.

 

[Capt jgw]

He missed the major stuff.

I've never been impressed by surveyors. Buying boats, I find things they missed, and selling boats, no mention of things I knew were wrong.

I've had four different boats insured with Allstate over a forty year period and was only asked for a survey once, that was on my home built boat. They accepted my USCGAux Facility Inspection, which really only covers the safety equipment.

Ken[/QUOTE]

 

[Benny17441]

Each insurer has a threshold amount on the agreed upon value. In less expensive boats they look at the credit and financial responsibility of the insured and usually waive a survey. If there is a lender involved they may require a periodic survey.

 

[RoyS]

Dave, My insurance company did not ask for a new survey but they have increased the cost by 32% over the last four years. In response to that increase I tried to get other competitive quotes for similar coverage. Every new insurer, including BoatUS, required a survey that was less than two years old. My survey was four years old. JRT, Market value for my 1980 boat is about 17,000. I was looking for 38,000 agreed value due to extensive upgrades. No matter though, BoatUS only offered market value (calling that the agreed value) and still required a less than two year old survey. My insurance costs nearly $1,000 at this time. Others on this forum state that they are able to get insurance for about 1% of agreed value. In my case that would be $380, not $1,000. I only coastal sail in New England and do not sail to Florida or Canada and put the boat on stands for the winter. As I said, I think my old boat has crossed an age threshold that insurance companies are wary of.

 

[dlochner]

I've never been impressed by surveyors. Buying boats, I find things they missed, and selling boats, no mention of things I knew were wrong.

My experience with surveyors has been mixed. I spent several cold damp hours one November with Gene Barnes from Glouscester surveying a beat up Sabre 34. I learned more from Gene about boat building and maintenance in those few hours than I had in the 20+ years of prior sailing experience.

The survey for my boat was a mixed bag. He didn't mention some obvious items, made a couple of poor recommendations, and wrote a survey that the bank would not accept. The mortgage broker had to work with him to get an acceptable report. On the other hand, he found an embarrassing obvious defect that neither the broker or I had noticed. http://www.sv-secondstar.net/blog/second-star/6-deal-on

When comparing boat insurance policies, be sure to compare apples to apples, not all policies are alike. An agreed hull value yacht policy is a very different animal (to mix metaphors) than a rider to homeowners policy or auto style policy.

 

[dlochner]

Dave, My insurance company did not ask for a new survey but they have increased the cost by 32% over the last four years. In response to that increase I tried to get other competitive quotes for similar coverage. Every new insurer, including BoatUS, required a survey that was less than two years old. My survey was four years old. JRT, Market value for my 1980 boat is about 17,000. I was looking for 38,000 agreed value due to extensive upgrades. No matter though, BoatUS only offered market value (calling that the agreed value) and still required a less than two year old survey. My insurance costs nearly $1,000 at this time. Others on this forum state that they are able to get insurance for about 1% of agreed value. In my case that would be $380, not $1,000. I only coastal sail in New England and do not sail to Florida or Canada and put the boat on stands for the winter. As I said, I think my old boat has crossed an age threshold that insurance companies are wary of.

$1000 a year is a lot for an older boat. I pay less than that for a $90K agreed hull value on a 1993 boat.

In 2010 BoatUS lowered the AHV on my 1981 Sabre 30 following a large claim (boat blew off the jack stands) from about 30K to 25K. One thing I learned during that claim is some claim items were treated differently than others. In your case, where you have extensive upgrades, the upgrades might be covered under the equipment and personal effects part of the policy which would have a different limit than the hull. Some upgrades will be depreciated, such as sails and rigging. Might be worth clarifying the coverage areas and limits.

 

[JRT]

@RoyS I think you have your answer, +$21k is probably the reason it is so high and you have additional requirements for surveying.

 

[RoyS]

Maybe, but I am only interested in being able to get a suitable replacement boat if a catastrophe should occur. I am too old to put another seventeen years of work to upgrade a $17,000 boat into what I have now.

 

[dlochner]

put another seventeen years of work to upgrade a $17,000 boat into what I have now.

Here's another part of your answer, the upgrades from 17 years ago add little value to the boat due to depreciation.