Installing midship cleats

RoyS

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Jun 3, 2012
1,742
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
I have two C.S. Johnson 48-508 neat cleats. They work great and will fit in tight spaces. These are folding cleats exactly like the toe rail models shown above except that they have deck mount flanges that fasten with four 5/16" bolts. Searching on line I found a Johnson catalog that states that these are discontinued but are available at their web site.
 

SFS

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Aug 18, 2015
2,088
Currently Boatless Okinawa
I dont find them on their website. So it is a folding cleat, but mounts to the deck with 4 bolts? What does the folding part gain you in such a situation? Reduced height?
 

RoyS

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Jun 3, 2012
1,742
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
The cleat lies flat when you are not docked. This means that you will not snag a control line or stub your toe. The 2006 catalog had these available. I tried yesterday to find them in the current Johnson on-line catalog but instead found only an on-line reference that they were available only through their web site, whatever that may mean. Search for C.S. Johnson 48-508 neat cleat and you should find the same reference.
 

SFS

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Aug 18, 2015
2,088
Currently Boatless Okinawa
From the 2009 catalog, it is listed simply as discontinued. It is in a section that starts with "The following products have been discontinued or are available on website only" and then provides a list of items. Some of the items are marked "available on website only", but 48-508 has no such annotation.

http://www.csjohnson.com/PDF/2009_Johnson_Marine_Supplement.pdf

See top of page 8.
 

SFS

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Aug 18, 2015
2,088
Currently Boatless Okinawa
Stu, I was talking about the deck mounted cleats discussed in post #21. Wanted to see a pic, but they are apparently discontinued. I will be buying the ones you posted.
 
Jun 21, 2007
2,117
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
I ran into the dock after getting caught by a strong wind gust while docking solo

More details here

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f90/first-collision-how-could-i-have-avoided-this-169059.html
Alctel:

Thanks for including the link to your detailed description of the bad outcome docking event. I (and I expect most boat owners) also have had some experiences as well that left me feeling disturbed. But fortunately no real noticeable scrapes or damage. Our Cherubini Hunter 36's have extreme prop walk that almost pushes the stern as much to port in reverse as reverse actually slows down the boat. When I put my boat in reverse and look over the starboard side, the prop wash direction is 45 degrees. Compare that to the fleet of Benateau's that the sailing club had at my last marina. Many times I watched infrequent renters get themselves in trouble. They would hit reverse. The boat would stop and back up perfectly straight. Just like a car! Observed reverse prop wash for those boats was virtually straight along the hull. If we tried the same "technique" on our Cherubini Hunter 36's our boats would be spinning like a top in a reverse circle.

I have the same dock orientation as you do. Prevailing winds are 90 degrees across the dock from the starboard side. In Sausalito, my marina is located at the base of what I call Hurricane Gulch #2 next to the Army Corp of Engineers' dock. When the fog is off the coast, afternoon breezes and gusts can easily be 15+ knots. Fortunately, my marina has fingers between each boat. I come in fairly hot aiming at the upwind side. Because if going slow, I wouldn't have enough speed=steerage to correct for any miscalculation. Then when I am sure my bow will make it into my slip, it's full reverse to stop the boat about 1/2 - 2/3's in. (Yes, I have nightmare's about some future time when something breaks in the gearshift circuit and the boat doesn't go into reverse. Or the engine decides to quit at that moment!) Between the prop walk and the 15 kt cross wind, shifting the boat into reverse moves the stern to port hard. But I have a bumper protected dock on the port side. The fenders hanging off my port side as well also absorb the contact. So OK for my hull to come up a bit hard. Often its hard enough that the boat then ricochets back against the starboard finger! Only damage is fender rubber marks on the hull.

But you have a neighbor's boat to port. Bouncing off that is not an acceptable option. My first thought when reading your link: Keep an eye out for another berth to come open that instead is downwind from your neighbor where the Cherubini Hunter 36 pronounced reverse prop walk can be utilized for an advantage. As for the suggestions to back in that some in your link made. I have read this many times over the years. But for our boats with such extreme reverse prop walk, I always considered this a risky alternative even in light/no wind. In a tight/narrow marina slipway, we don't have enough open water to get enough reverse speed for the rudder to reliably counteract the prop walk... even if we try techniques like short bursts. So we risk losing control of the situation from the outset. Further, the type of encounter you had (some easily DIY repaired cosmetic damage to the bow), backing in would have destroyed your rudder and rudder post assembly instead. Shudder to think the lost sailing time and $'s of that outcome.
 
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zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
i added one to my ericson on the genoa track. worked great.
 

Alctel

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Dec 13, 2013
264
Hunter 36 Victoria
Alctel:

Thanks for including the link to your detailed description of the bad outcome docking event. I (and I expect most boat owners) also have had some experiences as well that left me feeling disturbed. But fortunately no real noticeable scrapes or damage. Our Cherubini Hunter 36's have extreme prop walk that almost pushes the stern as much to port in reverse as reverse actually slows down the boat. When I put my boat in reverse and look over the starboard side, the prop wash direction is 45 degrees. Compare that to the fleet of Benateau's that the sailing club had at my last marina. Many times I watched infrequent renters get themselves in trouble. They would hit reverse. The boat would stop and back up perfectly straight. Just like a car! Observed reverse prop wash for those boats was virtually straight along the hull. If we tried the same "technique" on our Cherubini Hunter 36's our boats would be spinning like a top in a reverse circle.
Yup, it's quite the conundrum. I'm going to see if I can move to a slip that has a downwind side dock. Having to come in fast to maintain steerage against strong wind, stopping and then hopping off in time to stop myself drifting from the dock is a lot to handle all at once.