In the Future of Cruising

[Roger Long]

This kind of thing is going to be more and more a part of the cruising life, I fear:

http://cruisersnet.net/border-patrol-performing-searches-at-mobile-bay-marinas/

Right now, it seems most common in the south. I hope it doesn't come to the US/Canada border areas but I have heard that there is a lot of advocacy for uniform enforcement.

Canadians tell me that the US is putting a lot of pressure on Canada to make their requirements for US citizens cruising in Canada the same as what we put Canadian cruisers in the US through. I, myself, wouldn't continue cruising in Canada under those circumstances and probably would give up cruising all together.

 

[justsomeguy]

Trading freedom for security. Not a good trade.

 

[GeorgiaBII]

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)

This country is not going in a good direction at the moment.

 

[Stu Jackson]

The very folks who decry the nanny state must behind this one!
We had some Canadian friends who sailed down from British Columbia to Mexico. To get there, they had to pass thru, you guessed it, the United States of Draconian stupidity. The check-ins required were burdensome, demeaning and unnecessary. It sure sounds like the $$ given to "Homeland Stupidity" has morphed into too many cops with boats and nothing else to do but harass boaters. It's always been the CG who got to board ya, now it's all the other goons, too. And, of course, for those of you who liveaboard or are cruising, your boat is your house and home, but they can't do that on land, right? Wait, HR497 or something like that, was signed a few weeks ago, meaning, essentially, we are now a police state. Welcome to the future, kids. Where's George Orwell???

 

[Roger Long]

HR497 or something like that, was signed a few weeks ago, meaning, essentially, we are now a police state.

The Supreme Court ruled back at the beginning of the war on drugs that the rights of due process, probable cause, and unjustified search and seizure that we take for granted on land apply do not apply on the water. Recreational vessels are engaged in navigation and therefore everyone may be treated the same as a boat coming over the horizon from Columbia. This horse left the barn a long time ago. The general fear level of the nation has just spurred it into a wild gallop.

The sad reality of cruising is that, as soon as your feet leave the shore, you have made the same decision to enter a police state as if you had decided to vacation in Iran or Syria.

 

[justsomeguy]

I'll take my chances.

 

[kloudie1]

Interesting note, Roger.. Note that this local area is used by the Coast Guard for training .. They do a lot of helicopter work off oil platforms and in the water there.. I am assuming that the Homeland Security donkeys are using the same area..

Here is how ridiculous they have become.. I did a little consulting in the same refinery I'd worked in for 33 years. I have a "Transportation Workers Identity Credential" (TWIC) card which requires a background check by the Gestapo.. Still, I had to have a full time escort no more than 10 feet from me at all times while in the plant.. Not an oil company rule, that is from our "keepers" at Homeland Security. Like much government enforcement, the easy targets are inconvenienced to make the managers feel good but very little is done to correct the most dangerous scenarios and operatives.

 

[CarlN]

Going out the Savannah River this winter, I came upon an LNG tanker coming in accompanied by six coast guard boats. Lot's of radio hailing to the "White sailboat" (down south "White" doesn't narrow things down much). I even had my AIS transponder on. Then one of the RIB's comes alongside to "escort" me past the tanker. They were very nice but the 50 cal machine gun on the bow was loaded and manned by a coastie wearing a kevlar combat helmet.

I am all for them being careful with these LNG floating bombs but I'm very sad about the now common display of military force in civilian operations (yes, I know the CG is a branch of the military). Would it be so risky to keep the machine gun and helmet out of sight until a threat presented itself?

It also seems amazing that a US Documented and manufactured boat transmitting a correct AIS identification crewed by three old farts is a concern. But an explosive device capable of vaporizing Savannah that is manned by non US citizens, conveniently labeled in Arabic and coming from a country with terrorist training camps is OK.

Carl

 

[Stu Jackson]

Carl, do you really expect logic from security "trained" "keepers-of-our-waterways?"

They have to, based on their training, treat everyone as an armed terrorist.

What a country.

There's a guy on ybw.com who has a signature that reads: If I wanted to live in a banana republic I would have gone to South America."

And he's English. They are way "ahead" of us in photographing everything.

Scary sh*t.

Quick, hide the rum!!!

 

[Bill Roosa]

Can you say HOMLAND SECURITY?
this is not about the war on drugs guys and galls. While customs and the DEA have to do due process homeland Security does not. and for good reason.
It is a little known fact that your average nuclear bomb can fit in a sailboat capable of circumnavigation and you could sail such a boat to any of our harbors or even Washington DC. Not that the latter would be much of a loss.
Fortunate those guys and galls who you so quickly poo-poo are on the job checking things out.
Now I'm not the most sensitive guy but I'm thinking you could cut them a break and let them do their job.

 

[GeorgiaBII]

Bill,

I think the quote in my post above sum's up my thoughts on what you said. Needless to say I politely disagree with you.

 

[CarlN]

I am trying to keep this from being political, but Bill you make my point. I'd like to let the Coast Guard do their job of saving lives, cargo and ships; keeping buoys on station and lit; and otherwise supporting safe navigation.

Instead people who want us to worry about a nuke in every sailboat make them conduct a pointless theater of driving around with loaded 50 cal machine guns scaring everyone. And if I did have a backpack nuke on my boat, they didn't board me. And if they had boarded me, they never would have found the non-existent nuke because I'd hide it in my special lead foil lined spinnaker bag.

Those LNG tanker bombs shouldn't be allowed within 5 miles of a populated coast. That's a job for the Coast Guard.

Carl

Sorry Roger. This is your board. I'll shut up.

 

[Tom J]

The more time we spend on the water, the more interaction we will have with these various federal agencies. I remember one day before 9/11, counting four different local law enforcement agencies with boats on the water as I entered Boston harbor. For the most part, they were harbor masters and police boats, and they weren't routinely boarding boats. They were just as likely to help someone in trouble as they were to bust someone breaking the law. At the time, that seemed like a lot of police presence, but compared to a multi-agency task force boarding boats in a private marina, that now seems like "the good old days".

 

[Jimm]

Trading freedom for security. Not a good trade.

Right on - we have become an extreme 'risk averse' society. Despite World Trade Center disasters, the price is too high.
Let's not be too harsh on the US Beauracracy - seems many other countries are at least as difficult to deal with based on world cruiser reports I hear....

 

[Roger Long]

How will terrorists actually smuggle a nuke into the U.S.?

Easy, they'll hide it inside a cargo of cocaine.

 

[justsomeguy]

Right on - we have become an extreme 'risk averse' society. Despite World Trade Center disasters, the price is too high.
Let's not be too harsh on the US Beauracracy - seems many other countries are at least as difficult to deal with based on world cruiser reports I hear....

We can't talk proper politics here...

 

[Jimm]

We can't talk proper politics here...

Not intended to be a political comment rather an observation on the complaceny of society - we're becoming 'soft' in too many ways -- sailors excepted of course

 

[justsomeguy]

Not intended to be a political comment rather an observation on the complaceny of society - we're becoming 'soft' in too many ways -- sailors excepted of course

Agree with the softness. Unfortunately, "Everything is political." :neutral:

 

[kloudie1]

during the "dug war" of the 80's and 90's we were accosted by the Coasties on two Gulf of Mexico crossings .. High speed inflatable intercept with hand held machine guns .. both shortly after midnight and not in US waters..Very courteous guys and dogged off once they looked at papers of boat and crew. I have no problem with those guys watching but the 2 bajillion candle power lights they put on the sails blinded everyone in a three mile radiius !! We were impressed! They swooped in from a high speed hydrofoil cutter which we'd seen because of the way it occulted the stars .. it was moving so fast that we really didn't connect it with a ship.....until the lights came on.. It was very cool to see it pick up and very quickly go out of sight when the launch got back.. To me, that is a lot different from boarding private boats in a marina..

 

[Captandrew]

How will terrorists actually smuggle a nuke into the U.S.?

Easy, they'll hide it inside a cargo of cocaine.

LOL

I think this, at least the purpose of the humor went over most of the heads around here.