In search of a rudder transom mount for a Point Jude 16

[dLj]

Here are the holes - a larger horizontal one and a small vertical one leading to bigger hole.

Right - the smaller hole is where you feed the line down into that larger hole. You then pull enough line out of the larger hole, make a figure 8 knot then pull it back into that larger hole but the knot keeps the line from pulling out. I'll have to scrutinize your various images to see where that line may go up through the rudder head. Where is the clear talked about in the directions to clear that line off?

dj

 

[Foswick]

I think you're already getting good advice. I just want to say not to overthink this part. It is pretty hard to get this wrong. Just choose an appropriate wood and thickness and make your best effort to approximate the original. This is one of those cases where you don't even need to be very close. The only critical points are that:

• You can securely mount your tiller to it and it stick up above the transom high enough for the tiller to clear the transom.
• The pivot is about 18 inches below the lip on your transom (just estimating from the photo). If you're within a few inches, you're OK. Critically, the pivot needs to be below the lower pintle and a fair bit above the lowest point on the hull (so that when the rudder is kicked up, there is nothing to drag on a sandy beach, for example).

I kind of think that's it. It will perform just fine if you get it within those constraints.

Best thing to do is cut a template out of scrap wood to tweak the fit before cutting your for-real piece.

 

[rgranger]

What I am sharing I actually got from someone on this list. Serve about 15 years ago. Instead of a bungee or a line to tie the rudder down. Drill a hole through the rudder bracket and the rudder and stick a nylon bolt through it. you can get these nylon bolts in the plumbing section of Lowe’s. They are used to attach a toilet seat to the ceramic bowl of a toilet. They’re fragile and will break if they hit a hard rock so you can sail along without worry and then, if you strike something hard, your rudder won’t break …the bolt will give and then ….have a spare handy.

 

[cybrdweeb]

Thank you everyone for the help! This has become a 62 year old son and 90 year father project. I showed him the part and he said “I can make that”.

To be honest I found this forum by an internet search for someone needing the same part. I found this old post by Bruce Cresser from 2013 and hoped he would chime in. I sent an email but no reply.

“I have the patterns for the Point Jude rudders and have made many replacement rudders, contact BCBoats @ qu793@yahoo.com

 

[cybrdweeb]

I made a cardboard template of the head from pictures and measurements. It’s really a wooden sandwich that holds the rudder but I don’t know what is inside the sandwich. How does the “kick up “ line attach and I see a notch in the upper rudder I assume it keeps it from hitting the boat.

 

[shemandr]

It's not really that hard to make a rudder. I made a rudder for my 14' Marblehead Skiff. The original was a barn door rudder which I was unhappy with the performance with.
Instead I made a rudder of my own design. I used two plywood cheeks and a blade that fit in-between. The blade rotated down on a pin so the rudder could kick up and the blade extended much further down than the barn door and I went to the trouble of making the blade a hydrodynamic shape. I used blade up/down lines to control the blade. The performance was excellent and I could adjust to beach the boat without unshipping the rudder. A very satisfying project! I have only ordinary skills.

 

[Joe]

Aha! That's all we need. The line simply locks the rudder down using the cord and a clamceat. As far as I can determine there're no other unique functions.

The control line connects to the rudder blade through the small hole on the edge and secure with a stopper knot (simple overhand, as compact as you can get it) The large hole contains the stopper knot so it won't rub the head board. Control line will follow the rounded edge of the blade, giving the user a little extra purchase when deploying the blade into vertical position. So pulling on the line will rotate the blade approximately 90 degrees.

Okay, there's a notch on the blade... do you see it?. It's next to the small and large holes on plane with the central pivot. This is where we need an actual picture of the other side from the internet one you first posted... so, what is the notch for? No pic, so use your imagination here. but my guess there's a block, or a peg... something simple to keep the blade from over rotating, maybe even act as a guide for the control line up to the cleat.

Finally, the cleat. The manual says clam cleat, which is the actual name of the company and there are hundreds of designs. What you want is the small clamcleat with fairlead. Which keeps the line "captive" so the line stays in position when it's not cleated.

You can mount the cleat on the side of the head board in line with the control cord. You can be creative and route the line to wherever you like, on the tiller for instance. (just keep it on the moving part of the assembly) You can use small stainless steel screw eyelets to redirect the cord's path if you want to try improving the leverage or efficiency. Okay.... that's all I got. good luck. have fun....

 

[cybrdweeb]

Aha! That's all we need. The line simply locks the rudder down using the cord and a clamceat. As far as I can determine there're no other unique functions.

The control line connects to the rudder blade through the small hole on the edge and secure with a stopper knot (simple overhand, as compact as you can get it) The large hole contains the stopper knot so it won't rub the head board. Control line will follow the rounded edge of the blade, giving the user a little extra purchase when deploying the blade into vertical position. So pulling on the line will rotate the blade approximately 90 degrees.

Okay, there's a notch on the blade... do you see it?. It's next to the small and large holes on plane with the central pivot. This is where we need an actual picture of the other side from the internet one you first posted... so, what is the notch for? No pic, so use your imagination here. but my guess there's a block, or a peg... something simple to keep the blade from over rotating, maybe even act as a guide for the control line up to the cleat.

Finally, the cleat. The manual says clam cleat, which is the actual name of the company and there are hundreds of designs. What you want is the small clamcleat with fairlead. Which keeps the line "captive" so the line stays in position when it's not cleated.

You can mount the cleat on the side of the head board in line with the control cord. You can be creative and route the line to wherever you like, on the tiller for instance. (just keep it on the moving part of the assembly) You can use small stainless steel screw eyelets to redirect the cord's path if you want to try improving the leverage or efficiency. Okay.... that's all I got. good luck. have fun....

Thank you for the great information but I’m still confused - I can see how the cord pulls the rudder up but what keeps the rudder in the down position?

 

[rgranger]

Thank you for the great information but I’m still confused - I can see how the cord pulls the rudder up but what keeps the rudder in the down position?

Here is a pic of a similar rudder system (this is from a Macgregor 22). I took this pic to show off the tiller I made...

The continuous line that runs up to the cleat serves to both hold the rudder up and to hold it down. In this pic, the line runs through the gap between the cleat horns... and a quick figure 8 of the line around the horns sets the line in either the up or down position. The metal plate in the picute is the hinge point for the rudder. In this pic, the line would be set to hold the rudder down if I simply figure-8-ed looped the line over the cleat horns.

Edit: The line through the holes (the bitter ends) are just a simple stop knot on the back side of the rudder,

 

[Joe]

Thank you for the great information but I’m still confused - I can see how the cord pulls the rudder up but what keeps the rudder in the down position?

If I turn the picture of the rudder upside down, so that you are seeing it as it is on the boat it could make sense.... although I'm suspecting that you are so far unwilling to even experiment with making it work... the first rule in boat ownership. "just figure it out"

Okay, on a wide plank or piece of plywood, lay the rudder blade down, leading edge to the right. That's the side with the small hole and the notch. If you want, drive a nail into the pivot hole to make it easier to rotate the blade as it would on the boat. Tie some string through the hole, or even try rigging it with some thin cord and stopper knot... like it would be on the boat. Draw a squiggly line to represent the water depicting the rudder's position when it is "down". Next, put a nail in your plank directly above the notch, so the blade cannot rotate forward past vertical (this represents the unseen stopper that we know is there) Now put another nail a foot or two directly above the notch. This represents the cleat you'll secure the control line.... Are you ready? If you tie off the string on the top nail (cleat) the blade cannot rotate counter clockwise.. or lift. The line is pulling the blade forward, against the notch... which is holding the blade vertical. Uh, oh.... shallow water ahead... better release the rudder control... so we undo that string... now the rudder can move, either by floating slowly or by hitting the bottom... We can simulate this by using you hand to push the blade to the left, trailing edge... You'll notice now what makes the whole thing work. The Hole for the control line is level with the pivot hole, or 3 o'clock, when the rudder is "down". When the control line is release and the rudder rotates to the left, the hole will follow to the 6 o'clock position... the lowest point of the imaginary wheel or pulley created by the semi round top of the blade. If set up carefully, the cord can actually stay attached or wrapped on the rounded portion of the pivot... the quarter circle between 12 and 3....and you can experiment with this to your hearts content... but your owner's manual doesn't seem to emphasize that at all... so I'm sure that pulling the cord from just about anywhere ahead of the hole, from 90deg straight up to any reasonable angle going forward.

That's it. For sure. Please put aside the analytics and get some string, a few nails and a board and work with it till you find something that'll work. Mock something up before spending money on high quality wood, because that's all any of us would do when similarly confronted. If you want to be a competent sailor you must learn how stuff works...... 'cause there aren't any gas stations and mechanics out there. If they were you'd be appalled at what they charge. There's a boat expert named Don Casey who's written a number of books on vintage boat systems and repairs.... well known... here's just one.... cheap at Amazon.

 

[cybrdweeb]

If I turn the picture of the rudder upside down, so that you are seeing it as it is on the boat it could make sense.... although I'm suspecting that you are so far unwilling to even experiment with making it work... the first rule in boat ownership. "just figure it out"

Okay, on a wide plank or piece of plywood, lay the rudder blade down, leading edge to the right. That's the side with the small hole and the notch. If you want, drive a nail into the pivot hole to make it easier to rotate the blade as it would on the boat. Tie some string through the hole, or even try rigging it with some thin cord and stopper knot... like it would be on the boat. Draw a squiggly line to represent the water depicting the rudder's position when it is "down". Next, put a nail in your plank directly above the notch, so the blade cannot rotate forward past vertical (this represents the unseen stopper that we know is there) Now put another nail a foot or two directly above the notch. This represents the cleat you'll secure the control line.... Are you ready? If you tie off the string on the top nail (cleat) the blade cannot rotate counter clockwise.. or lift. The line is pulling the blade forward, against the notch... which is holding the blade vertical. Uh, oh.... shallow water ahead... better release the rudder control... so we undo that string... now the rudder can move, either by floating slowly or by hitting the bottom... We can simulate this by using you hand to push the blade to the left, trailing edge... You'll notice now what makes the whole thing work. The Hole for the control line is level with the pivot hole, or 3 o'clock, when the rudder is "down". When the control line is release and the rudder rotates to the left, the hole will follow to the 6 o'clock position... the lowest point of the imaginary wheel or pulley created by the semi round top of the blade. If set up carefully, the cord can actually stay attached or wrapped on the rounded portion of the pivot... the quarter circle between 12 and 3....and you can experiment with this to your hearts content... but your owner's manual doesn't seem to emphasize that at all... so I'm sure that pulling the cord from just about anywhere ahead of the hole, from 90deg straight up to any reasonable angle going forward.

That's it. For sure. Please put aside the analytics and get some string, a few nails and a board and work with it till you find something that'll work. Mock something up before spending money on high quality wood, because that's all any of us would do when similarly confronted. If you want to be a competent sailor you must learn how stuff works...... 'cause there aren't any gas stations and mechanics out there. If they were you'd be appalled at what they charge. There's a boat expert named Don Casey who's written a number of books on vintage boat systems and repairs.... well known... here's just one.... cheap at Amazon.

 

[cybrdweeb]

Thanks for the great explanation- I finally figured it out have incorporated it in my mock-up.