I Have a Niagara 26 and race this boat all the time in local club races and many distance races I have had much success in winning with the class legal main and a 150 Genoa since I am the only Niagara 26 racing hear in Vancouver I have modified my boat with a bow sprit and only use asymmetrical spin. after experimenting with an over sized main (code 7) and using a 105 jib I have found increased performance up and down wind. My boat is now fitted with a martin 242 main and the question is how inboard can I consider installing the new jib track? the original track is inboard the shrouds but on the deck I was going to install on the cabin top half way between the mast and the hand rail everyone keeps telling me just use in-haulers or barber-haulers and keep with the same track. any ideas racers??
in board sheeting?
- Thread starter Hull 26
- Start date
There will be a limit to how far you can effectively sheet in the jib. At some point it will be too tight and will not add much to the performance. Before adding the track, I'd experiment with barber hauling to see if there is any performance increase.
Your advise is good and the same advice came from (North sails) but they would not give advise on how far inboard to go.
I have sailed a few time using a barber hauler and found no speed increase but a much better angle to windward at the same speed and boy can I out tack my competition mostly C&C 30 and 32's but can't find any formula as to how far is reasonable. I guess it's trial and error.
Yes it's the best way to spend a weekend! Just need someone to pace myself against. We are not allowed to race here yet.
Do you have a chart plotter? Set a way point up wind. Then start sailing. Note the VMG with different jib lead settings and record them. You'll want to use the setting with the highest VMG.
That is a fabulous Idea, a race against the the VMG. I'll tell my wife it's going to take all day, research.
If you are going to do this right, you'll have to do it several times to verify and extend the results. You'll have to go out in light winds, moderate winds and strong winds. And then there are tides and currents to contend with. Probably take most weekends until late spring or when ever racing season starts.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,390
A DAY!?what you need an excuse to go sailing for the day.
a plan was laid to consume every weekend.... genius
Sea state is an important consideration. Short steep chop kills boat speed when using a small headsail. Flat water it probably works we’ll especially on short up down courses with a lot of tacking. With its relatively small fore triangle and large main it could work with the N-26.
Just a quick comment... what you are talking about is called the ,,"sheeting angle". It is the angle between the boat's centerline and the line from the tack fitting to the lead block's position. If you look at most racing boats, the lead track will be oriented to maintain a particular sheeting angle, regardless of the lead car's location on it.
Anyway, using this term in your research may be of help, or maybe not, heh, heh.
A lot of the racing vids and books that were published back in the 70's 80/s and 90's will show boats using an inside and outside track, along with a somewhat permanently rigged barber hauler to adjust the sheeting angle.... You can get really precise using that method... so... I don't think it's too risky to put the track pretty far inside knowing you can use it effectively with the barber hauling rig. Hmmm.... I guess that wasn't such a quick comment after all.
Anyway, using this term in your research may be of help, or maybe not, heh, heh.
A lot of the racing vids and books that were published back in the 70's 80/s and 90's will show boats using an inside and outside track, along with a somewhat permanently rigged barber hauler to adjust the sheeting angle.... You can get really precise using that method... so... I don't think it's too risky to put the track pretty far inside knowing you can use it effectively with the barber hauling rig. Hmmm.... I guess that wasn't such a quick comment after all.
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jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,390
Experimentation is always more fun. Perhaps reading about the science of sails and the aerodynamics involved would be of help in addressing the question.
I would suggest:
I would suggest:
- A good place to start is Arvel Gentry, Some of he's research and ideas can be found here... Gentry Sailing
- Of relevance in your query would be at what point does the pinching in of the jib begin to cause turbulence (drag) off the jib leach disrupting the flow along the main.
- Is it possible to reach an attack angle that slows rather than speeds up the boat.
- The foiling boats achieve remarkable attack angles because of the minimum drag of the hull.
- Also in my library is Frank Bethwaite and his book High Performance Sailing and Fast Handling Technique. Two great books.
Your setup is similar to the C&C115 I race on. The track is on the side deck, inboard the shrouds, but we use a tweaker (barber hauler) to adjust the in/out position of the clew. This gives a very tunable 3D setup shown in the picture below. Here the tweaker is only on a bit but, depending on the wind and waves, we can move it in several inches to get extra point. In the picture you can see there is a 4:1 reduction on the tweaker line and then there is another almost (due to the angles) 2:1 for a total of close to 8:1 which makes it fairly easy to move under load. This setup gives a much better range of adjustment than adding another track. The sheet angle of deflection isn't very large so a simple SS ring works but your could spend a few extra $ and use a low friction ring.
My J/88 uses the same solution. You can sheet it to closer angles as the wind falls and open it up as the wind rises.
@capta do you have any pictures of your setup now? You may be able to rig something to bring your sheeting angle in but it can be difficult if you don't have a track inboard of your shrouds.
A blade jib sheeted inboard will help with pointing but you also need to have an efficient keel shape or you will have too much leeway to make it worthwhile.
The foils above the water need to work with the foils below the water when sailing upwind.
Its interesting to watch the America's Cup boats, they sheet closer to the centerline sailing downwind than up wind because they trim the foils to make the boat climb to windward when sailing up wind - they have negative leeway!
A blade jib sheeted inboard will help with pointing but you also need to have an efficient keel shape or you will have too much leeway to make it worthwhile.
The foils above the water need to work with the foils below the water when sailing upwind.
Its interesting to watch the America's Cup boats, they sheet closer to the centerline sailing downwind than up wind because they trim the foils to make the boat climb to windward when sailing up wind - they have negative leeway!
I was responding on my phone so I couldn't see the links in your signature. There are some great sailing pictures on your web site. If you have a solid attachment point on the cabin top you could try it out to see how it looks. It looks like you have a life raft on the cabin top, the tie down for it may be solid enough for moderate wind.
If it were my boat I would rig an upwind sail on the inner stay. Tacking a genoa across the inner stay is not much fun.
Rig the sheet inside the shrouds, through the tweeker block (or ring) and then to your sheet block on the rail. Then set the tweeker to pull it inboard. It will take some playing around to get it set properly but that just sounds like fun sailing.
If it were my boat I would rig an upwind sail on the inner stay. Tacking a genoa across the inner stay is not much fun.
Rig the sheet inside the shrouds, through the tweeker block (or ring) and then to your sheet block on the rail. Then set the tweeker to pull it inboard. It will take some playing around to get it set properly but that just sounds like fun sailing.