Ideas for how to straighten the rubber packing box hose (shaft log hose)?

[RichW9603]

Hi all,
I have a 1989 Hunter 33.5. The stuffing box is leaking pretty badly. It currently has the OEM nylon stuffing box. A couple months ago I replaced some of the flax, which helped for a while but it is back to the constant trickle. I was arranging for the repair yard to pull the boat in order to have the prop shaft removed and the stuffing box replaced with a regular bronze one, but from reading the forums it looks like on these Hunter 33.5's removing the shaft will require either dropping the rudder or removing the cutlass bearing skeg, both of which are extremely challenging, and the repair yard I have access to is a small mom-and-pop so chances of something going wrong sounds pretty high.

I think the reason it is leaking is because the rubber hose connecting the stuffing box to the stern tube is crooked. It seems to angle off to one side towards the end, which compresses the flax on one side and creates a gap on the other. See attached pictures. But since hauling the boat and dealing with the rudder/skeg seems to be high-risk, maybe there might be a way to straighten the rubber hose using a clamp or band or something, at which point it would align with the shaft and work like it is supposed to. It looks like clamps designed for car exhaust might work, something like this:

But wanted to see if you all might have any suggestions. I have watched the shaft spin with the boat in gear, the angle you see in the attached pictures is not the shaft being horribly out of alignment, I think it really is the stuffing box is cocked at an angle.

If straightening the rubber tube doesn't work I can always fall back to having it hauled and praying for the best re: shaft removal.

Sorry for the long post, and appreciate any replies.
'Dubs

 

[Warren Milberg]

It appears to me that, among other things, your shaft may be corroded. If so, it will continue to leak even if you replace the packing gland. You may need to remove the shaft and have it resurfaced at best; replaced at worst.

 

[Maine Sail]

#1 Properly align the engine with the strut

#2 Align the shaft coupling to gear flange within .003".

#3 Get rid of that plastic packing gland and old hose and replace it with bronze and a new hose.

#4 When shaft is out have it tested for true and inspect for wear and corrosion.

#5 Have a new coupling fitted and faced to the shaft.

 

[kloudie1]

From the pix, it looks like the shaft is not centered in the log.. it looks like the whole engine needs to go to port so that the shaft gets centered in the log ..the part that the hose and boat is connected to.. You can see this once the boat is pulled by pulling the stuffing box out of the hose then check the hose for straightness after the box is free of it. the shaft should be in the center of the hose (if the strut is correct). Don't try to bind the hose because the bouncing engine weight will crack it.. You might try loosening the hose on the log and rotating it a half turn.. ?
EDIT: Maine beat me to it.. and offered a more precise post..

 

[RichW9603]

Thanks for the input gents. To be clear, I know the best solution is to haul the boat, replace the shaft, stuffing box and all that but what I am concerned about is the ability to drop the rudder or remove the cutlass bearing skeg might be challenging/high risk for the little mom-and-pop yard I have available, and if the problem really is the rubber tube is bent (as opposed to the alignment being way off) then straightening the rubber hose might be a solution.

I think one key thing I need to determine is if the alignment is way off or is the tube actually crooked like I think. Kloudie, that's a really good idea. What I might be able to do is loosen the hose on the shaft log and rotate it. If the stuffing box rotates perfectly along the stern tube / rubber hose axis, then the rubber tube is aligned correctly and it is the engine / shaft alignment which is way off. But if the stuffing box changed position from being slanted to port to being slanted in whatever way I rotate the rubber tube, then the alignment is reasonable and the rubber hose truly is bent.

Would that be a good way to test or am I missing something? Again thanks for the great input.

 

[kloudie1]

Would be a good way to test, kind of.. and ... if ya careful you may be able to do that with the boat in the water.. but MAN !! if that hose cracks while you are trying to get it loose, a LOT of water will come in really quickly.. have a plan B
Probably the packing will keep the box in its current plane.. so when ya rotate, the "close" side will rotate with the hose.

 

[RichW9603]

Would be a good way to test.. and ... if ya careful you may be able to do that with the boat in the water.. but MAN !! if that hose cracks while you are trying to get it loose, a LOT of water will come in really quickly.. have a plan B

Great call...I am going to work with the diver who does hull cleanings to see if he can't plug up the outside area where the shaft comes in with plumber's putty or something.

 

[Rich Stidger]

The paragraph below was my first response. Then re-reading your post I came up with the second paragraph below.

<Well, understand that I am not an expert, and my 1997 h40.5 has a bronze stuffing box, but it looks to me from your photographs that the shaft is seriously out of alignment. I think a misaligned shaft would drastically shorten the life of the packing in the stuffing box. This agrees with your repacking and now leaking again scenario. Other symptoms of misalignment would be shaking of the engine when running engaged with the prop, and severe wear on the cutlass bearing in the strut. Do you have either of these conditions?>

I suppose that if the stern tube was installed improperly aligned, this could also be the reason that the hose is damaged and appears to be misaligned. Given that the shaft is not misaligned, no engine shaking, and no abnormal cutlass bearing wear, I would tend to agree with you that it appears that the stern tube is misaligned. The best fix that I can see would be to haul, remove the shaft, remove and replace the stern tube. That is a lot of work and not at all inexpensive either. The rubber hose looks to be in such bad shape that I would want to have it replaced. If you could get the shaft out of the flange then you could replace the hose. But I think I have read from MaineSail that a properly fit shaft to flange required a machine shop procedure. And in a 1989 boat getting this apart may not even be possible.

I am not familiar with the connection of the stuffing box hose to the stern tube- I have never had to disconnect it. But I wonder if it is possible, or even advisable, to insert a beveled plate where the hose attaches to the hull and stern tube. This could straighten out the stuffing box alignment. The plate could be made in two pieces and bonded before attachment.

 

[Stu Jackson]

but from reading the forums it looks like on these Hunter 33.5's removing the shaft will require either dropping the rudder or removing the cutlass bearing skeg, both of which are extremely challenging, and the repair yard I have access to is a small mom-and-pop so chances of something going wrong sounds pretty high.

Nice that you've done your homework.

But, can't you simply remove the propeller and slide the shaft past the rudder without removing the rudder?

 

[Ken Cross]

I just did this in October. Ours was a 30 but did have that nylon piece of junk shaft seal and it looked exactly like yours. I replaced it with a PSS dripless seal because it was not much more than a new bronze one. I'm glad I did. The Rudder and shaft didn't need to come off. The trick is to get the coupler flange off the shaft without breaking anything. I did this by removing the zincs and sliding the shaft aft once it was unbolted at the flange.

This is not a job for someone who is nervous about damaging something. You do risk damaging the shaft (big $$$.)
I borrowed a homemade puller made from 1/2 inch steel plate. Don't even think about using the socket trick you find on the internet. If you break the flange on the transmission, it is going to be more trouble.

If you go with a dripless shaft seal the rubber tube comes off as well as the stuffing box. It's just 2 hose clamps and off it comes. I did polish my bronze shaft with 1,000 grit sandpaper to clean it up. The new shaft seal is great.

Feel free to contact me if you want more specifics.
Ken

 

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[RichW9603]

Hi Ken,
Thanks much for the reply. Interesting you managed to take the shaft out without removing the skeg or rudder. Didn't the cutlass bearing skeg cause your shaft to hit the rudder when you pulled it out? I am attaching a picture here and you can see how little room there is between the back of the shaft and the start of the rudder.

As far as the shaft, I've decided that if I do the procedure I'm going to replace the shaft with a new one (which would include new coupling flanges). So it will be super easy to get the shaft out because I will tell the yard just to cut the old one out, but that doesn't solve the problem of getting the new one back in. Maybe there is a way to slide the new shaft in from the front instead of coming from the stern.

Thanks,
Dubs

 

[Richard Bryer]

My 34 has the same problems with being able to slide the shaft back because of the rudder. I have found that hoisting the motor up enough to pull the shaft forward ( with the half coupling still attached) isn't that big a problem. I placed a 4X4 across the companionway, used my 8:1 mainsheet blocks with a piece of chain connected across the engine tops and attched to the two lifting tags. I was able to lift the motor far enough without disconnecting anything ( except the mounts- just take off the top nuts and re-aligning isn't such a big job) and was able to do it by myself. I don't know whether the layout of yours will give you room or not but worth looking at.

 

[Capt jgw]

When I had to do this on my Columbia 8.7 I pulled the engine instead of dropping the rudder. Yannie 2GM, not very heavy and I was able to slide it into the salon with no problems. Then removed the prop and pulled the shaft out through the engine bay. Did it out of the water of course. Gave me good opportunity to give the bay a good cleaning too.

 

[RichW9603]

Richard and JGW, thanks for the input. I'm feeling better that going through the front end might work. I only have a 2GM so maybe setting up some blocks and moving it using the boom might work. I think I'm going to buy a new shaft, so they can cut the old one out, just getting the new one in will be the trick. Fingers crossed. But assuming it would work, I owe you guys a beer (and everyone who responded).

Say Richard for your H34, do you have the nylon stuffing box or do you have a bronze one?

 

[Capt jgw]

When I put mine back in I used a dripless type. The fuel tank sits on top of the box making it damn near impossible to get to. With the dripless I didn't have to.

 

[Ken Cross]

Hi Ken,
Thanks much for the reply. Interesting you managed to take the shaft out without removing the skeg or rudder. Didn't the cutlass bearing skeg cause your shaft to hit the rudder when you pulled it out? I am attaching a picture here and you can see how little room there is between the back of the shaft and the start of the rudder.

As far as the shaft, I've decided that if I do the procedure I'm going to replace the shaft with a new one (which would include new coupling flanges). So it will be super easy to get the shaft out because I will tell the yard just to cut the old one out, but that doesn't solve the problem of getting the new one back in. Maybe there is a way to slide the new shaft in from the front instead of coming from the stern.

Thanks,
Dubs

I didn't remove the shaft, just slid it back far enough to do the work. There was plenty of space between the prop and rudder to do that. I just needed to remove the aft most zinc. In the photo, it looks like you have as much room as I do.

I'm a bit curious why you would want to go to the expense of replacing a shaft if you don't have to? Just remove the flange and slide the old parts off and the new in place. The PSS needs a smooth shaft for the O-ring, But that is in a different place from the old packing so even if there is a grove from the old packing the PSS still works. At least clean up the old shaft to see how it looks. Then you don't need to lap the prop as well as the high cost of the new shaft.

Here is a pic of the new seal before I cleaned up the area. It's great to not have the mess caused by that drip, drip, drip.
Ken

 

[Maine Sail]

My 34 has the same problems with being able to slide the shaft back because of the rudder.

A cutlass bearing press tool works really well here and the shaft can almost always slide by the rudder with the cutlass bearing pressed out. My Strut-Pro tools saves owners lots of money in labor.. Some owners associations have even purchased Strut-Pro tools and have them in their loaner program for association members. Alternatively you can buy one, use it, then turn around and sell it here in the classified section under "Gear Ads" and treat the slight loss like a "rental fee".. If you are creative you can also build a press tool..

 

[RichW9603]

Ken - I see. I only need to create enough space between the prop and transmission to remove the old stuffing box and slide the new one in. I didn't realize that. So if I can get the shaft mating flange off, just slide the shaft back six inches or whatever, remove the current box and tube and replace, bolt it back up?

 

[Capt jgw]

That will work if you can get the coupling off. I had to pull mine out because the shaft was bent. ( that's a whole other story).

As mentioned above if the socket under the coupling trick doesn't work with moderate pressure, don't force it. Break or bend the trans flange and you've got a real problem. My Hurth trans has a four fingered flange that looks guaranteed to bend if you try it. I made a jacking plate, just a dummy flange out of 1/4" steel, put a socket under that and cranked away. The coupling popped right off.