I still don’t quite get rule #2…

Tally Ho

Tally Ho

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Jan 7, 2011
4,787
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Here is a good little reminder video from Progressive Insurance about boating safety.


I like the reference and reminder that sailboats under sail have priority…

But Rule #2 seems hard for me to get my head around…thankfully I don’t sail in a crowded area, and I almost always stay out of the way if there is someone near me…but I should really learn the rule…stand on vessel vs give way vessel. The video doesn’t mention starboard tack… just left and right…but whose left or right?

What is your take on this video rule 2 and how do you explain to a rookie who has the right away when 2 boats under sail are on an intersecting (collision) course?

Greg
 
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chip veres

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Nov 30, 2020
79
Macgregor 22 Dania, FL
This just seems to be an extension of the idea that oncoming boats pass port-to-port unless their captains have agreed otherwise. Like U.S. people drive to the right side of the road.
Chip V.
 
dLj

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,425
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
Tally Ho said:
But Rule #2 seems hard for me to get my head around…thankfully I don’t sail in a crowded area, and I almost always stay out of the way if there is someone near me…but I should really learn the rule…stand on vessel vs give way vessel. The video doesn’t mention starboard tack… just left and right…but whose left or right?
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Rule #2 in the video is for 2 boats with same maneuverability (in video both are under motor). It did not add in the subtilties of different boats; motorboat vs sailboat; boat with limited maneuverability vs boat with full maneuverability; etc. It also did not address two sailboats where starboard tack has stand on position.

Two power boats approaching each other, the boat that is seen to starboard has the stand on position. If you think about it, If you are that boat, the other boat is seeing you on their port side. Don't know if this helped?

dj
 
Roland5048

Roland5048

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May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
The clip didn't specifically mention two sailboats crossing paths. It can be a bit different rule than two power boats where the boat approaching from the right has right of way. Think two cars meet at an intersection at the same time. The car to the right usually goes first. Generally, the sailboat on a starboard tack, (the wind is approaching from the starboard side), has right of way. Of course, if a collision is imminent, than all bets are off and both boats have an obligation to prevent a collision. Having right of way does not give one an absolute right to maintain course and then claim the other boat was at fault in the event of a collision.
 
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dLj

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,425
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
Roland5048 said:
The clip didn't specifically mention two sailboats crossing paths. It can be a bit different rule than two power boats where the boat approaching from the right has right of way. Think two cars meet at an intersection at the same time. The car to the right usually goes first. Generally, the sailboat on a starboard tack, (the wind is approaching from the starboard side), has right of way. Of course, if a collision is imminent, than all bets are off and both boats have an obligation to prevent a collision. Having right of way does not give one an absolute right to maintain course and then claim the other boat was at fault in the event of a collision.
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Just to point out - this "right of way" concept is not a boating concept. Boating it is stand on and give way. Neither boat actually has "right of way".

dj
 
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Roland5048

Roland5048

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May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
In a passing situation, the boat, sail or power, that is passing has the duty to stay out of the way of the boat being passed. Of course, the boat being passed has the duty to maintain speed and course as to not create an unsafe condition.
 
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Roland5048

Roland5048

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May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
dLj said:
Just to point out - this "right of way" concept is not a boating concept. Boating it is stand on and give way. Neither boat actually has "right of way".
Click to expand
Granted. The term "right of way", while being used erroneously in this context, is more easily understandable to the novice boater. Stand on and give way can then be taught in the same context.
 
Charles Erwin

Charles Erwin

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Jan 30, 2012
1,123
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
There is no 'right of way' in the Colregs. And that is deliberate because the regs are about what is expected of vessels.

Thus, the standon vessel - here the one crossing your path from your right to left - is expected to maintain course and the giveway vessel (you) are expected to alter course - in this case to the right. That maneuver results in compliance with the convention calling for approaching vessels to pass port to port. This is just like Rolands automobile intersection case - but there are no rights involved.

If a standon vessel is put in jeopardy because the giveway vessel cannot or does not give way the standon vessel is under an obligation to give way or otherwise maneuver (stop, turn, even back up) so as to avoid a collision. The point is this: The standon vessel is expected to maintain course/speed - but must disregard that rule - if following that rule could result in a collision. In such a case the standon vessel must disregard the rule calling for ordinary or expected behavior and do all things possible thus to avoid a collision.

Remember overarching purpose of the Colregs. There are no rights given and there is an absolute obligation to avoid a collision - no matter what any other rule says.

When someone asks "Which vessel has the right of way?" - and plenty of boat drivers think they have "rights" - tell them that the very best answer is "Everyone else."

Charles
 
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Benny17441

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May 24, 2004
7,131
CC 30 South Florida
#2 is a simplified rule for owners of power vessels to follow when approaching another oncoming power boat. Call this video an Awareness Video for New Boaters that there are Marine Rules of the Road. I did not watch the whole thing but hope the informed the viewers the actual regulations are a little more complex than that.
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
11,434
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
If you can see the other boat's red light, you are the give way vessel. If you can see the other boat's green light you are the stand on vessel.

In COLREGS there is only an obligation, no rights.
 
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rgranger

rgranger

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Jan 19, 2010
12,375
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
dLj said:
Just to point out - this "right of way" concept is not a boating concept. Boating it is stand on and give way. Neither boat actually has "right of way".

dj
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You are correct of course but.... the "give way" boat has the obligation to allow the stand on boat to continue on their way. Kind of means the same thing doesn't it? Sort of like comparing Fuji and Granny Smiths. They are both apples. Slightly different but also the same.
 
Charles Erwin

Charles Erwin

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Jan 30, 2012
1,123
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Quite right and good rule. Except during daylight and the operator of the vessel (me) can't remember which side the red is on when the lights are off.
 
Charles Erwin

Charles Erwin

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Jan 30, 2012
1,123
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
dlochner said:
If you can see the other boat's red light, you are the give way vessel. If you can see the other boat's green light you are the stand on vessel.
Click to expand
Quite right and good rule. Except during daylight and the operator of the vessel (me) can't remember which side the red light is on when the lights are off.
 
dLj

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,425
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
rgranger said:
You are correct of course but.... the "give way" boat has the obligation to allow the stand on boat to continue on their way. Kind of means the same thing doesn't it? Sort of like comparing Fuji and Granny Smiths. They are both apples. Slightly different but also the same.
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Perhaps I shouldn't be so precise in this conversation.

It comes most recently from hearing a novice boater (I was riding with them on their boat) say if that darned other boat doesn't move and there's an accident, then they will just take them to court and win because they have the "right of way"....

That's not a unique experience, but it is the most recent one that comes to mind. So I disagree with your apples analogy as to me they are two totally separate systems with different fundamental concepts. They are not both apples, the only commonality is that if you screw up, you can end up in a legal cesspool....

dj
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
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Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
rgranger said:
You are correct of course but.... the "give way" boat has the obligation to allow the stand on boat to continue on their way. Kind of means the same thing doesn't it? Sort of like comparing Fuji and Granny Smiths. They are both apples. Slightly different but also the same.
Click to expand
There is a not so subtle difference. The Give Way vessel is obligated to give way, however the stand on vessel is obligated to take action to avoid a collision, it has no "right" to stand on. It must give way if the other vessel does not.

A right implies something that can not be taken away, i.e., the right to free speech or freedom of the press. Vessels have no rights, only obligations to avoid collisions.

As I understand the law, if there is an accident and the give way vessel did not give way and the stand on vessel had time and room to avoid the accident but didn't, the stand on vessel is liable for the accident.
 
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