I need advice again

[suds]

Hi All,

I've ran into an issue that I need some advice on how to address. For the pass year I've been trying to track down a small occasional leak in my Hunter 25 v-berth area. This weekend I believe I have finally located the leak.

It appears the water is entering from a previous unknown repair from what I can tell. I believe the area is just above the water line, since the water only appear during choppy weather when docked. The hull was cleaned and inspected about two weeks ago with no major or minor issues being reported. There is also no visible sign of damage that I can see above the waterline from the outside on the hull.

My question is can this be repaired without pulling her out

The closest dry dock is about an eight hour sail away.

The attached pictures below are looking up from the bottom of the hull.

Does anyone know how thick and what the construction of the hull is above the waterline for a 1974 Hunter 25

 

[Bill Roosa]

Hey suds
I'd agree that it looks like a PO did a poor patch. Unfortunatly you will not know how much dammage has been done till you open her up.
If the pach is above the water line you should be able to fix it with out pulling the boat but if it is at the water line (some of the patch is below the water line) then you have to consider if you could get the patch fixed quick enough so bad weather does not cause more problems and the possibility that the leak extends below the water line. Normaly the hull is solid fiberglass with no filler material. So you should be able to just grind back the patch till you get to the area that is leaking. Then make the hole in the hull and patch from the inside. This will require doing some gelcoating from the water side. also consider careening the boat by moving heavy items to the side opposite the patch may bring the patch high enough out of the water for the repair in the water.

Good luck

 

[Benny17441]

Don, if you fail to see any patches or evidence of repair in the outside of the hull I would look somewhere else for the leak. Leaks have a way of travelling and sometimes are quite hard to locate. The fact that it shows up on choppy weather may only mean that the boat rocks allowing pooled water from a leak to flow to that location. I have never gone to such extremes but I hear about people laying talcum powder on the inside hulls to help locate the path of leaks.

 

[Rick D]

I agree. Get a dry board marker and mark all the suspicious areas. Then go back to see where the marker has run. Best way to check for a leak (as opposed to a deck leak where pressurizing the hull may be better).

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

H25 bow leak?

Suds, have you ascertained for sure that there was a hull breach that was mended? Unless you are sure of that, I would presume that it would have to be a terribly bad patch job (and terribly obvious) to admit seawater into the bunk area.

I have been working in the forepeak on my H25 this past week and discovered, quite to my horror, that the rode locker in the very point of the bow did not adequately drain into the bilge due to a collection of wood and sticks and leaves. Instead it could have been 'draining' right out onto the surface of the vee-berth. That little bulkhead is not sealed at all, and given a leaky rode hawse fitting it could very well be admitting rainwater by the bucketload, some of which will seep into the bilge and some of which will dribble onto the bunktop. It may not be enough for you to notice under the cushion, though I am sure you would detect a mildewy odor before long. In the weather you describe, enough may be blowing in through that hawse fitting or else it gets wet every time you stow the anchor rode.

My cushions have been discarded in favor of all-new ones, there is no rope in the rode locker and the hawse fitting is taped over. The leaks I have perceived have been from the screw holes for the removed stem fitting (see the blog pic). But I did notice that the very point of the vee-berth bunktop is cracked and bits of the 'glass are peeling off, indicating that the plywood may have been wet before. Really when I see such huge gaps around the sides of the bulkhead there is no way it hasn't been wet, at least for the PO.

I have already installed a drain tube for the rode locker and will be sealing up the sides and pouring an epoxy slurry into the bottom of the compartment till the voids are sealed up around the drain tube. The drain tube leads aft to the aftermost compartment under the bunk where the through-hulls all are, the only spot other than under the galley sink that can accommodate a leak.

Just a thought.. maybe check yours out too.

 

[suds]

I don’t know for sure if the area in question was a repair or hull damaged. I’m basing my conclusion on what see and what seems to be the most reasonable answer. I am the first to admit I’m usually wrong and that’s why I’m here.
John, I don’t have a rode locker but there are three v-birth lockers, and none of them have drains; they are all sealed. The aft locker is the only one that I’ve seen water in and that is where the picture came from. Should these lockers have drains?
So instead of grinding away at the unknown, which scares the %&#$ out of me, I’ll take a wait and see approach. I’ve removed the piece of bunk in the aft V-birth which covers the area in questions, pulled loose the hull liner to expose the toe rail nuts and removed the divider to the forepeak locker.
Thanks to All for the advice

 

[KennyH]

I have the 1981 Hunter 25 and I have found water in the v-berth when the front hatch is not completely tight. Water can force its way over the little lip if it is not perfectly tight. I have the anchor locker and it was not sealed from the v-birth completly which I did a few years back but you say you don't have a rode locker. I also have opening ports which can be a source of leaks. New gaskets seem to be the fix for that but again you have the older model which has no opening ports.
I would check your opening hatch for sure!

 

[geehaw]

You may also want to grind the area down just a bit to get rid of the part that looks like it is not solid to the hull. This might reveal something with hurting the integrity of the hull.

If you do need to grind out and repair it you might use the halyard and heel the boat over with it to get the hull high enough from the water to do what needs to be done.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Suds, send me a few better pics. Maybe something a bit more wide-angle. What you have looks like wet plywood detached from the fiberglass. Most builders use only polyester resin, not epoxy, when attaching plywood and these two things are notorious for parting company. This problem is directly responsible for my acquiring my H25 for next to nothing. You'd better believe all my work since is meant to avoid this problem in future, perhaps for ever.

If I could see more of the boat I could say more about it.

How much water are you actually getting; and where, exactly?

 

[suds]

Hi All,


I got a chance to move the boat into a better position and measured to where the corresponding repair should be on the outside of the hull. After getting into a good position I found the source of the leak and confirmed it by spraying water on the area. I’ve attached 3 pictures and enhanced the 3rd one to show the it better. I’m not really sure what to make of it since it’s perfectly round.


Any suggestion on how to repair the area?


John I'll get some wider angle pics of the v-berth and post them tomorrow.

 

[kloudie1]

Looks like a poor repair to a previous thru-hull fitting.. Probably should be removed and correctly done with a tapered thickness fiberglass repair from the outside. Use West Systems repair guide and ya can't go wrong.. It is a tedious repair but not hard to do.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/repairing-machined-holes-in-fiberglass/
This would be a "zone 3" repair.
Technically could be done without pulling the boat out but that would require a lot of weight on deck (water barrels maybe?) on the opposite side to keep the repair area clear of he water while you worked.. Another option would be to drill the old repair out and install a slightly larger thru hull fitting and cap that fitting .. again with weight to hold that area clear of the water while working.

 

[suds]

John, here is a link to the pictures of the v-berth, they are in the repair folder

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=97816e79fab4d102&resid=97816E79FAB4D102!689&parid=97816E79FAB4D102!598&authkey=!ADfGWsAdiY7bYaA

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

repair suggestion

Ugh! --what a rotten trick you have discovered. Who'd have thunk it?

I'm sorry about my misdiagnosis; but it's easy to see how you overlooked this at first. Some POs really take the cake.

I wouldn't try this without pulling the boat out. Take the surface it down to gelcoat or further and grind it fair, then patch it with something nice like structural putty (WM has it) or mishmash and then fair it in. This appears to be a dent less than 1-1/2" in diameter so there's a very good chance this will be adequate. The structural putty having the 'long-strand' fiberglass in it is really terrific stuff. 'Sticks to anything and won't fall out,' my cousin Lee says. The stuff is valuable because it contains fiberglass material in it. With clever application, sculpting and good prep this may lick it for good.

Refinishing the repair will be another issue. You can patch this with gelcoat or paint (whichever your boat has) but remember two vital things:
1. You can put on as much as you want, but it will be a lump. Make it as long and wide as you can to minimize its impact.
2. If you sand down a lump too far, you will remove it till it's as though it was never there. So you'll have to do some creative sculpting (leaving some of it there but essentially not noticeable). I did this on my galley-sink drain and I hate how it turned out.

You can do this all with hand sanding and hand tools; but it'll take several days with all the laying-up and drying and all. Proximity to water (inlcuding rain) will negate your efforts.

By my calculations this boo-boo should be right at the level of the v-berth. If you had to patch it from the inside, it would require some creative access points (meaning cutting out a bit of the bunk). So try it from the outside first and see how far you get.

I hope this is more germane than my first reply.

 

[suds]

Hi All,

I want to thank everyone for their advice. I decided to take geehaw's advice and "grind the area down just a bit to get rid of the part that looks like it is not solid to the hull". It turned out to be worse than it appeared. It was a patch over a patch and both were failing. I ended grinding out both patches and laying up two layers of 738 fiberglass cloth. This fall when I pull the boat to have a bottom job done I'll finish the repair from the outside of the hull. I still need to complete the surface finish of the repair from the inside but at least I know it's solid now.

You can use the link in the previous post to see the pictures after grinding back the PO patch.