I have nearly the same setup as below for my mainsheet. It's incredibly difficult to release the line from the cam cleat under heavy loads. When water is ready to pour over your coming you want to be able to release it quickly. The traveler won't let the boom out as much the sheet will. I've been contemplating adding another block to create a 5:1 setup. The spinlock PXR clutch looks like it might solve the cam cleat issue. Would you add an extra block or upgrade to the PXR first?
I just can't get no release!
- Thread starter Project_Mayhem
- Start date
Dumping the traveller is usually effective in righting the boat with a lot less noise and commotion than releasing the mainsheet. Also, the trim for the main remains unchanged, so it is easier and faster to get underway again, just pull the traveller up.
Try releasing some tension on the cam cleat. Take a ¼ turn off each of the nuts securing the cleat to the fiddle block. Also look at the angle of the cam relative to the block and the angle necessary to pull the sheet out of the cam, this angle can be adjusted. The sheet should release if it is pulled vertically.
Adding another block will add considerably more line to the mainsheet and increase friction on the system. A 4:1 purchase on your boat should be more than adequate. The Harken cam cleats do wear out after a while, if the cleat is the issue, then replacing it will be much cheaper than adding a block.
Try releasing some tension on the cam cleat. Take a ¼ turn off each of the nuts securing the cleat to the fiddle block. Also look at the angle of the cam relative to the block and the angle necessary to pull the sheet out of the cam, this angle can be adjusted. The sheet should release if it is pulled vertically.
Adding another block will add considerably more line to the mainsheet and increase friction on the system. A 4:1 purchase on your boat should be more than adequate. The Harken cam cleats do wear out after a while, if the cleat is the issue, then replacing it will be much cheaper than adding a block.
I have to be pretty far forward in the cockpit to release the traveler due to the angle that it must be pulled at. I can hold the mainsheet in my hand no matter where I'm sitting. My mainsheet came off of a Catalina 27 so it's long enough for an extra block
I grew up sailing dinghies without travelers so perhaps I'm used to reaching for the main first
I grew up sailing dinghies without travelers so perhaps I'm used to reaching for the main first
Cam cleat tension is NOT adjustable. There is a spring and the end locations are fixed. All loosening the screws does is make the mount less secure.
Yes, very often the cleats are set low for easy cleating, making them difficult to release. Rotate the cleat upwards, until the cleat releases when pulled towards you. It should take a distinct motion to cleat the rope, not to uncleat. Very common problem, I've had to change the cleat rotation on every boat I have owned.
More purchase will help. $$. I don't know what is normal on an O'Day 25, but I use 7:1 on my F-25, most beach cats run 6:1, and My stiletto 27 ran 8:1. I'd go 6:1. Make it a ratchet cleat (makes it easier to hand-hold and lowers the release tension).
No, you do NOT want a PX cleat on the mainsheet.
Yes, very often the cleats are set low for easy cleating, making them difficult to release. Rotate the cleat upwards, until the cleat releases when pulled towards you. It should take a distinct motion to cleat the rope, not to uncleat. Very common problem, I've had to change the cleat rotation on every boat I have owned.
More purchase will help. $$. I don't know what is normal on an O'Day 25, but I use 7:1 on my F-25, most beach cats run 6:1, and My stiletto 27 ran 8:1. I'd go 6:1. Make it a ratchet cleat (makes it easier to hand-hold and lowers the release tension).
No, you do NOT want a PX cleat on the mainsheet.
On my boat the tails to the traveler control lines are really long. If the wind is gusty they can be brought back to the helm. A strong jerk upwards will release them from the cleat.
It took some time on a racing boat to really understand how important the traveler is to getting good mainsail shape and position. Now I rarely change the mainsheet, more often moving the traveler.
It took some time on a racing boat to really understand how important the traveler is to getting good mainsail shape and position. Now I rarely change the mainsheet, more often moving the traveler.
When you say cleat rotation are you referring to the adjustment circled in blue or is there another adjustment available in the green circle?
I have to have the line on a parallel plane to the traveler to release it. It's not possible to get the correct angle unless I'm fairly far forward. Thanks for the sail shape tip. I'll definitely start experimenting
+1
Our C22's traveller is a bit crap, and it's a small boat, so I sometimes sail it like a dinghy or beach cat. Ratchet systems make it so much nicer to hand hold when I want to.
When you refer to a ratchet cleat, do you mean one of the blocks has a one way ratcheting mechanism?
I would turn the sheet upside down so that the sheet releases by applying downward force. That can be done with your leg which is a whole lot stronger than your arms. And you can put your weight into it. More purchase will be more friction. In light air it will be a PITA to get the boom out.
We have the exact same set up . The exact same boat . I don't know how yours is actually configured from the boom to the traveler .
On ours the cleat is on the bottom facing up . All I ever have had to do is pull the mainsheet up and out to release it.
On ours the cleat is on the bottom facing up . All I ever have had to do is pull the mainsheet up and out to release it.
The problem with relying on dumping the traveler to unload the main, is that even all the way down, the traveler unloads the main only so much. Given the circumstances, say a large gust or wind, or the need to turn down hard to duck a starboard vessel, the traveler dump may allow you to retain control... or it may not, and you lose control of your boat. Usually its a adequate solution, but occasionally you may t-bone a vessel crossing on starboard. So anyway, I much prefer to rely on adjusting the mainsheet, which permits fully releasing the main if that is what is needed to maintain control. After the emergency has passed, then adjust the traveler a s needed and then reset the sheet.
When racing, the crew would have have both the main and traveler in hand, and traveler adjustment first would be usual...unless the main was called for.
This is exactly how it's setup. I really have to pull on my sheet before pushing it down. This usually means bracing myself with my feet to prevent sliding
I swapped the original Schaefer block and tackle for Harken since rust was starting to form. Perhaps the original was a higher purchase. Unfortunately I cannot flip the cleat.
Mine is attached midboom. Pretty typical setup for this boat. I'm not opposed to buying new hardware to resolve this issue
Just to cover the basics, you first need to angle the line tail until it makes like a 45 degree angle to the plane of the base of the cam cleat, and then pull? The pull is to pull the line up ( and out) of the jaws, not to further tension the line. If the jaws are upside down, then you can release the line by pushing down with a foot. The key requirement is the line angel above the plane of the base, then apply the pressure. In your comment above, you should be pushing the line down first, then applying the pull pressure...
The adjustment in the blue circle. Try rotating it higher, so that you have good leverage when pulling to release. Locking it in the cleat, as you have learned, is secondary (this is even more true on multihulls).
I assume the cleat is on the lower end. I think the photo confused a few posters. Or I am wrong.
Some boats lift to uncleat. Some pull down. Beach cats and multies are always down to release, lift to cleat. The most ergonomic "pull" angle should always be uncleated, and then either lift or lower to cleat. (It is lift to cleat on most dinghies, because pulling lower is impossible if you are leaning out or trapping.)
Racers of dinghies and tender boats typically set the cleat high, out of the way, because they will hand-hold the sheet a lot and want to be CERTAIN it will uncleat when desired.
You should NOT have to push the sheet down to uncleat. That is unsafe. Pushing with your foot, while braced with your feet, is scary unsafe. It should drop out cleanly when you pull at the best angle. Zoom in and you will see that I have the cleat rather high. A horizontal pull releases the rope. And yes, that is 7:1 on a 24-foot boat. The F-24 is pretty stiff and the sheet really loads up in a breeze. And don't over-size the sheet for comfort; there will be more friction through the blocks. Instead, wear gloves when it blows.
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Yes. The block next to the cleat is textured (bumps) and only turns one way (there is a switch on the side to turn this function off in light winds). It does NOT lock the rope. It is more like the resistance a winch gives when easing a sail.
The cleats are flipped, facing upside down, not towards the sky. There's too much tension on the line to pull downwards. Using a leg takes too much time when water is coming over the coming. Regardless of what body part is used to push/pull, tension needs to be released before this can occur. The cams are like putting your line in a clamp. It's a lot of tension with the 25-30kts of wind we've had lately! 
I have this adjusted to the second highest position. I'll take a look to see if it's feasible to go one higher
My block has this feature. I leave it on all the time
Can anyone explain why or why not the PXR series would be a bad idea as a mainsheet?
I've got a little bit different take on this, I think. Get rid of the fiddle blocks. They don't belong on a mainsheet set up. You don't really even have a 4:1 purchase with those inside blocks that have a smaller radius (smaller radius - more friction). You absolutely need more purchase. Even for your boat, I would use 6:1 by using 2 triple blocks. I did that on my Starwind 27 and it was a huge improvement. Sue always has a problem releasing a cam cleat under load because she always tries to jerk straight up. When you pull out and up (or down, whatever) at the same time, it is no problem.
Line friction in the blocks is not an issue when you select the right line.
Other than that, though, when you dump the traveller, you are more likely to foul the leeward lines, making it a mess to restore the setting. Just last week when Sue and I were doing a series of jibes, she kept fouling the leeward traveller lines, making it necessary to pull out from the windward side to take out the snags. Dumping the traveller rapidly causes the same problem.
Besides that, there is no difference in restoring the setting of the traveller when you dump the mainsheet. In fact it is exactly the same or even less troublesome. Basically, you don't have to do anything except pull the mainsheet back to the original position. You haven't changed the trim one bit after you restore the mainsheet. So, in ideal conditions, there is no difference. Under circumstances where the traveller either fouls or is more difficult to handle, it makes more sense to dump the mainsheet.
When you need to dump power in a hurry, the mainsheet makes a big change to the angle of attack AND twists the main simultaneously, which is exactly what you want to dump power.
Sure, adjusting to a puff or change in wind direction, use the traveller.
Line friction in the blocks is not an issue when you select the right line.
Obviously, there are reasons to adjust traveller rather than mainsheet but I never did buy this argument. When you need to dump the main sail on a small boat (ODay 25), I think it is more beneficial to dump the mainsheet. First, @Project_Mayhem already says there are more difficulties in reaching the traveller. I had the same problems with my Starwind until I modified my traveller, so I get it.
Other than that, though, when you dump the traveller, you are more likely to foul the leeward lines, making it a mess to restore the setting. Just last week when Sue and I were doing a series of jibes, she kept fouling the leeward traveller lines, making it necessary to pull out from the windward side to take out the snags. Dumping the traveller rapidly causes the same problem.
Besides that, there is no difference in restoring the setting of the traveller when you dump the mainsheet. In fact it is exactly the same or even less troublesome. Basically, you don't have to do anything except pull the mainsheet back to the original position. You haven't changed the trim one bit after you restore the mainsheet. So, in ideal conditions, there is no difference. Under circumstances where the traveller either fouls or is more difficult to handle, it makes more sense to dump the mainsheet.
When you need to dump power in a hurry, the mainsheet makes a big change to the angle of attack AND twists the main simultaneously, which is exactly what you want to dump power.
Sure, adjusting to a puff or change in wind direction, use the traveller.
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@Scott T-Bird thanks for your alternative view. I do think that it needs more purchase. I believe there's a double or triple block on the boom and the the fiddle block is on the traveler. You mention that a fiddler block has no place in a mainsheet. What do you propose should be in its place?
I'm not a big fan of fiddle blocks primarily because of the smaller diameter of the stacked pattern. They have their place, I suppose. I had one on the vang of my Starwind, which is where I typically see them used. It has a more streamlined look. When I modified my vang for a double ended control and for more purchase, I used a triple block at one end and a double block at the other with 2 singles to lead ends back to both sides of the cockpit. The vang was virtually useless with 2 fiddle blocks and was easily adjusted by hand with the new set-up.
I thought the photo you posted was your set-up for the mainsheet control. I didn't realize it is a stock photo. I have to admit that the primary reason I say it isn't appropriate is because I have never, ever seen a fiddle block used on a mainsheet control. That's not to say that it can't be but I would be surprised if that wasn't somebody's idea for a modification.
Depending upon which end of the system has the becket, I would convert the fiddle block minimally to a double block. I would definitely prefer a triple block at both ends for your application, and I would buy a whole new system rather than trying to piece together a new block with an old block if the whole arrangement isn't really working for you. There is more than just one way to skin a cat, and I always prefer to start from scratch if there is any part of the system that I don't agree with.
I can't really think of any use where a fiddle block is superior to a double block. I think the only reason they exist is because they look less clunky and more streamlined.
I thought the photo you posted was your set-up for the mainsheet control. I didn't realize it is a stock photo. I have to admit that the primary reason I say it isn't appropriate is because I have never, ever seen a fiddle block used on a mainsheet control. That's not to say that it can't be but I would be surprised if that wasn't somebody's idea for a modification.
Depending upon which end of the system has the becket, I would convert the fiddle block minimally to a double block. I would definitely prefer a triple block at both ends for your application, and I would buy a whole new system rather than trying to piece together a new block with an old block if the whole arrangement isn't really working for you. There is more than just one way to skin a cat, and I always prefer to start from scratch if there is any part of the system that I don't agree with.
I can't really think of any use where a fiddle block is superior to a double block. I think the only reason they exist is because they look less clunky and more streamlined.