I have a complaint

Moody Buccaneer · Jan 3, 2006

Too lazy ...

On this forum as well most others, there are always a few that just fire off a question without doing a quick search first.It obvious when then has been a 10+ reply thread on almost the exact same subject just a few days before.

I'm sure I've been guilty myself more than once.On a slightly different subject, I can't seem to get the thread tracker to work. If anyone uses this function ... oops ... off to search the archives ... my bad ...

John Nantz · Jan 3, 2006

It's About Good Communication

I know very well what you mean Ross - it's not the "Thank You" thats important, it's the back-and-forth communication.Dead-End (or Troll) Poster:How many times has one seen a post that doesn't really say much, like "What is the best blue-water cruiser....", or "Can a xyz be used for cruising?", etc. The poster doesn't say anything about their ability or experience (actually they don't have to because the mere qeustions indicates they don't know much). Or the "How many batteries do I need?" No mention of size of boat, what their load is, etc. & etc.After all the above, then there are numerous posts trying to help the person and you never hear anything from the original poster. One sign they will never be back is having the topic posted in the wrong area.Excellent Post:An example of a reall GOOD post, what I like to see, is the the iPod question about how to hook it up. The original poster came back several times seeking clarification and asking a few more questions. This way you know they're reading the posts/replys and taking part in the discussion. As a result the replys to the original post helped to zero in on the original question with more detail.http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/pviewall.tpl?fno=122&uid=F&sku=2006002163513.18The Unappreciative Poster:Another irksm (sp?) thing that I've seen is what Mike said about getting scolded when someone was trying to help them.The Troll Poster:They're in the wrong forum. Troll is a fishing term, isn't it? Yeh, yeh, I know. Who has the time to do this kind of stuff.The Lurker Poster:These are the ones who wait until a reply has been made then come in and broadside a previous replier who did the best they could to try and help 'cuz nobody stepped up to say anything. So where were they all that time? Why didn't they try and help out instead of waiting until someone broke the ice?This is 2006 and it's the beginning of a new year so maybe we can all help to do our poart to keep things friendly and civil.I'll drink to that! Hey! How come there's no beer mug "emotion"?P.S. For the Gates supporters out there (those trying to make him richer) be sure to keep checking their web site for their latest repair/fix - this time it's a REALLY bad one!

Tim C350 April IV · Jan 3, 2006

Since we're venting

Since we're venting, I really dislike the following responses:Call the factory.Check the archives.Go to the (insert model specific) association website - "it's probably www.(something).org" - only proving that the responder probably hasn't ever visited the association's website, and has no idea if the answer the question lies there or not.Venting over and out.Happy Winter!Tim BroganAprilIV C350 #68Seattle

Joe · Jan 3, 2006

Must disagree with you Tim

Many, many new people find this site and ask questions so basic that I don't think we are obligated to craft a new response to commonly asked questions. Most of these folks don't realize that their older boats have owner associations and are factory supported or that there is a wealth of information in the archives. It is our duty to enlighten them with our library of resources.

Fred Ficarra · Jan 3, 2006

Ross, good thread!

Lots of great points here. I've wanted feedback so many times that I've begged for it. Well, maybe just asked strongly.Anyway, maybe Phil will hire you to compose weekly questions.

Fred Ficarra · Jan 3, 2006

JOE!

That's IT! Phil (or somebody) needs to compile FAQs! Most commercial sites have them.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Jan 3, 2006

If posting to the wrong forum is...

a sign they will never be back, most of the sanitation question posters would never be back...'cuz almost all of 'em are asked in every forum BUT the "head mistress" forum! Tim, re your taking exception to responses suggesting that people check the archives or the mfr's website...(stand by for a rant <g>)...Why should people expect to be spoonfed answers over and over to questions that have already been asked and answered a dozen times, when they can find the answers themselves with a little effort? Last spring not only did 5 people ask how to solve the exact same "potty" problem in a single 3 day time period, but they did so in 5 different forums--not ONE of which was the HM forum! I also must have posted the instructions for recommissioning a fresh water system at least half a dozen times last spring...and I can cite dozens more examples of questions that are answered in owners manuals (most of which can be downloaded from mfrs' website) and/or the archives...even in the current 2-3 days postings! It's one thing to spend time helping someone sort out a problem...I'm glad to do it, and so are most of you. But why should you or I or anyone else have to spend time typing answers people can EASILY find for themselves...iow, do their homework for 'em (often even without any thanks, too!). So I see nothing wrong with sending someone to the archives or the mfr's website...and THEN, if necessary, helping 'em sort out what they didn't understand. I don't do that nearly as often as I should, but I think it's time I did. And Fred...we already have one of the most comprehensive FAQs on the web--our archives!(Whew!)

Moody Buccaneer · Jan 3, 2006

Read the FAQ ...

I think a FAQ might be a bit of work for a forum that covers such a great number of boats."Read the FAQ" ranks right up there with "Check the archives" as far as I'm concerned.How about a friendly reminder once in awhile that says something like:"We're proud of the wealth of knowledge than has been shared in our forums. We've covered a wide range of topics over the years. A simple search of the archives may yield an instant answer to many questions. The topic may be new to you, but chances are that the forum has talked about it before.If you find an answer and don't quite understand it, please ask for clarification. One of the "old salts" will be happy to help. We were all new to this sailing thing once, sometimes helping a newcomer is a great way to remind ourselves that we were in their shoes not all that long ago.When someone takes time to help, a simple "Thank You" will keep the pump primed for the next sailor. If you have a tough problem, you may get asked for more details. Chances are the more information you give the forum, the better answer the forum will give you."Some forum software allows "sticky" threads so the moderator can keep information available to new posters without having to re-post it every time it rolls off the board.It sounds like that might be a perfect solution for our "Head Mistress" She could include links to some of the most frequent topics in the "sticky"

Phil Herring · Jan 3, 2006

Interesting discussion

A couple things come to mind:- Some of this is just the nature of forums. However, we have a feature we're using in the brand-specific forums on SailboatOwners.com that lets the author of the original post (the question) receive email notification of replies. That might help keep the questioner in the loop a little longer.- I don't think a FAQ is the answer. Maybe that's because I'm lazy.

But really, the archive should fill that need. We have talked about posting some 'pre-configured searches' that would help the seeker get the search terms right for maximum results.- The archive is due for a major overhaul shortly. This week it's moving to a much more powerful server with more bandwidth so it will run faster. We're also going to clean out the dupe entries, put it on a more stable database, and re-write the interface so it's easier to read. Once that's done we can also emphasize the links to it in the main forum.Please chime in with any other requests!ph.

Tom Mendenhall · Jan 3, 2006

Great site'

Hi Phil,FYI, this is my favorite site and I generally get a laugh from the occasional knuckleheads that query or respond with stupidity or bad attitude. Ninety nine percent of time it's just good sailing people sharing questions and experience. I would be just as happy if you never change a thing.If I didn't have this in my insomniac nights, I know I would go back to the sick, twisted, depressing addiction of only reading the New York Times, Washington Post, etc.ThanksTom

patrick · Jan 3, 2006

Thanks are nice but

actual feedback would be very useful. It is difficult to know if a question has been answered or a problem solved without that. There is the additional benefit of new ideas which would add to the knowledge base. I think that some people are just too busy or self-centered to give feedback. Those are probably the same ones who are unwilling to spend the time to do an archive search much less say thanks. I am looking forward to see what Phil is cooking up with the new server. The search engine is long overdue for an upgrade. Maybe a "most frequent searches" or "recent searches" would be a good feature. That could have a "viewed" counter too which would yield some potentially useful data. At least I would be curious to see what is most interesting over a longer time period.

Rich L · Jan 3, 2006

Archives challenged

Great thread. I especially like all the respect being exuded in it.I definite feel for Peggy and appreciate her perseverance. She should be promoted to Head Queen. Also, Phil, don't give FAQs a second thought. It would take all of your boating time to keep up with it, far less going back and categorizing previous topics.I was directed to the Archives at least twice in the past year and a half. Both times, I never found what I was looking for. My search words didn't work, though they should have worked because I found them inside posts when using other search words. This is a very frequent problem of mine. I spend a lot of time in the Archives because it is such a wealth of information. I don't understand why it doesn't find all the instances of words inside the message bodies of the posts. Can this be corrected?Something that would be helpful (that someone did for me once) would be to give the user the search terms to use in the Archives that generate the posts that answers their question. It takes about as much time (or less) to try the search terms and give it to the inquirer and alerts the inquirer that the Archives is the first place they need to look. Gives them some practice that is likely to lead them to trying other similar terms, and bingo - you have created an Archive user!

Benny · Jan 3, 2006

Venting!

99% of the forum users are well intentioned, smart, resourceful and helpful people but that 1% of donot, cannot, is impossible, don't try never got anything accomplished.

Fred Ficarra · Jan 4, 2006

Rich L

I've often had the same problem with the archives. Even looking for stuff I wrote. So Phil, that's two of us.

Ctskip · Jan 4, 2006

A plus

Being a new guy to this site .I find I dont start my day without it and don't end it without it. Phil, thank you is not enough for all you have done for the sailing world.You should get free fuel and anchorage where ever you go,for the rest of your and your childrens lives.I'm sure there have been many dollars saved because of this site. Thank you again from one of your faithful readers.I have tried never to offended anyone. At least on this site.If I have, let me know. Thanks again

Stu Jackson · Jan 4, 2006

Research and Homework

These are some of my favorite things!

Peggie, I agree. I have had this discussion with folks at our own website for the last few years and wrote a report in Mainsheet that received a vociferous response from one or two of our members who continued to want to be "spoon fed."I understand that this particular website is one that is frequented by many newer sailors, who are folks who have obtained new-to-them boats, so I think our "regulars" here have gotten used to that. I know I have made an effort to assist in helping to find answers, but I must admit I do the "association" thing VERY often, because that's where a lot of boat-specific information is located. In fact, Phil has a page on this website just for that, if only people would look for it.I continue to suggest that people add their boat in their sign-on names. It helps us understand the question and also gives an indication of the answerer's perspective.So many questions are repeats. That's a reflection of new people. It's also a reflection of the times: why should I do the work when all I have to do is ask.I'm continuing to work hard to attempt to contribute in a positive way, or I choose not to reply - that's easier than ranting.And, folks, you just have to admit that Peggie's experience is NOT unique. What we should do, instead of retyping the same answers, is to help direct the person to the answers to their questions as specifically as we can, while still realizing that there is some work for them to do - like read it. I've learned, for instance, that if I provide a more direct link (IF I can), that may be more helpful. Many times the suggestion to "search the archives" is for a basic topic, like, for instance, "stuffing box." I'm not sure it would be helpful to tell the questioner to "search the archives on 'stuffing box.'" But I do note that the archive search is best used with checking the correct boxes on the search engine.Then there's the old saying: if you give a man a fish...if you teach a man to fish."We've all been "starters." What I did, was what has been suggested in many of the sailing articles and books that I have read, is: READ, READ, READ.This entire Forum is an encyclopedia, and the archive feature is simply the index. We simply need to help the questioners learn how to use the book.StuPS - lots of these responses are not at all in reply to the original question, but sure are interesting!

texastom · Jan 4, 2006

I also have problems with the searches

Ross, this is a good thread and if I haven't done so in the past, thanks to everyone for their input. Several times I have seen responses to people posting questions that refer them to the Archieves as a previous thread may answer their question. I have tried using the Archieves to first get answers but have not had much success in finding useable information. I have even tried to retreive a thread I started in order to find a response I wanted to investigate but the search using my ID did not find the thread. So maybe some improvement in the search engine is needed.That said, I have to agree that this site has been a wonderful source of information and ideas. My learning curve was definitely improved as a result. Toms/v At Last

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