I have a complaint

Pete · Jan 4, 2006

Patience, my friends...

Consider this a defense of the site owners/operators, if you will.I've searched the archives on numerous occasions, looking for info on a particular question/problem. whether it's keel bolts, VHF antennas, diesel stabilizers or whatever. Sometimes it's because I recall previously seeing an item posted, and I now need to track it down and put the information to good use. Other times, it's non-specific, and I'm just hoping that maybe at some point in the past there was a thread on a topic I need more info on.Sometimes the archive search works on the first shot. Sometimes it doesn't, and I have to be creative about what search terms to input. My assumption, whether searching this site's archives or anything else on the Web, is that if the search isn't successful, it's probably something I did on the user end, and something I can correct on the 2nd or 3rd attempt.I think we've also gotten so used to the Internet's speed and power when it comes to information gathering that we sometimes forget that this means you have to take the good with the bad, the relevant with the irrelevant. More isn't necessarily better. It's just more.If you don't like the search results, just change the search terms, damn it! These archives, and the Internet in general, will probably give you what you're looking for, but you have to work with it. Some people just don't get it.As for some people's failure to express gratitude for the assistance of others, well, that's life in the real world, I'm afraid.Petes/v EmmieLou (ODay 322)Little Silver, NJ

John Nantz · Jan 4, 2006

Civility Helps

Being respectful in our replies must help keep the demeanor of the board in good stead. Providing a courteous reply to someone who is new could encourage them to return but if they’re blown-off then they may never come back. With any board there is a learning curve about where things are and how the system works so being helpful makes it more enjoyable for everybody – the poster, replier, and the readers who neither posted or replied.Search SuggestionsSeveral times I have done a quick search on something that was posted and left a message about what I found which is a sideways way of providing a hint that information is available in the archives. I don’t know if one could have copied the URL to the completed search and pasted it in the reply or not but that could be a helpful tool too.Perhaps a question in the “Post” new topic page, when a person goes to make a post, that would ask them if they would like to do a search and “click here to open a new window for doing a search” (so they don’t loose what they have) would help? The e-mail option to get emails when someone posts a reply is excellent. On the other hand, I know Phil likes the KISS (Keep It Simple Sailor) principle so he doesn’t like to clutter things up.Search problems: I have to admit that I’ve also had difficulty finding old posts in the archives – even my own. Don’t know what I did wrong in the query but if I was looking for a picture, say, I’d have a key word such as my name and whatever and check the box for picture and nothing would come up yet I know the post existed. To have a successful search sometimes one needs to be creative. In any event, the searches here are much better than a lot of sites I’ve been to. Just yesterday I was at a manufacturers web site and tried everything to find one of their products: model number, name of item (printed on the item!), etc. and never did come up with it. Finally tried Google and found it on their (manufacturers) web site!!! And this was a large NYSE listed company if you can believe that.Your Post is Relevant to: This is still a bit of a problem area because so often one has a post which is boat specific but they click “General” so everybody gets spammed.Proper Forum: It must be a bit overwhelming for the newbie to the site to learn about how it’s laid out. It would depend a lot on how they entered and what they read and learned upon entering the web site. In a check of one entry page http://www.hunterowners.com/index.htm I couldn’t find the Head Mistress (aka Head Queen) listed and it wasn’t until one drills down via the drop-down menu Forums/Expert Forums do you get to Marine Sanitation Systems. So, to the newbie’s credit, it will probably take them a while to find all the “right” places and that’s assuming they take the time to explore. Gentle hints about site capabilities from the knowledgeable in our posts may be helpful for the next time they want to post or even go looking for something.Bottom line is it’s nicer for everybody when people are civil. Also, I’m totally and absolutely amazed how Peggy has the patience to keep it up. You’d think by now she’d have cracked under all the situations I’ve seen her get involved with but she doggedly stays with it.And I'd like to thank Ross for his excellent thread. I think it took some guts to post it. Now I gota get some work done!

Mike M16608 · Jan 4, 2006

Helping New Users

Having only been here about a year, thought I might chime in with some newbie perspectives....When you 1st stumble onto this site, the most effective way to use it isn't obvious. For instance, I doggedly read only H23 posts for the longest time before I realized most issues in the various forums have some application across almost all boats. Now, I simply go to the 24 hour activity area and scan all new posts, reading what interests me. As to advice to search the archives, I never took it as an abrupt response and when I started out, didn't really get the power they contain. I still need occasional reminders to look there. Overall I find archive searches to work well, with occasional puzzling exceptions.What a terrific resource we have here. The contribution from Phil and his team coupled with the sincere efforts of all of you folks to constantly make it better is truly remarkable.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Jan 4, 2006

Woohoo! There is at least one other person

here who's discovered the benefits of skimming the headers for all the posts instead of reading only what's posted to a couple of specific forums!If I only checked the HM forum, I'd miss at least 3/4 of the potty/plumbing questions (not such a bad idea, come to think of it

...not to mention threads like this one that are a LOT of fun. I wonder how many people who only read "their" forums ARE missing out on it....

r.w.landau · Jan 4, 2006

Peggie, you make it too easy....

Peggie I have given up. If I can't find it I don't look for it. Happy New Year, may your posters realize your worth!sincerely,r.w.landau

Garry @ S/V TASHTEGO · Jan 4, 2006

Archives

If you are going to direct inquirers to the Archives, tell them where to look by giving a date or a name or a title. Just saying "look in the archives" isn't helpful. If you can't help then let others respond.We should all note that this BB is probably the most civilized out there. Have a look at some others. You'll find many of them are full of rants, insults and bad information. This is by far the best sailing BB I've seen on the web.

Jon W. · Jan 5, 2006

Wrong Forum?

I had to chuckle at this thread. With all the talk about this site, shouldn’t it be in the “CO Site Talk” forum?

Jon W. · Jan 5, 2006

Pet Peeve

Kind of on the other side of the original post of this thread, I guess my suggestion would be that people responding to questions or requests for information would try to limit their responses to things they have had actual experience with, at least to some degree. Guesses do have value, but they also dilute the overall quality of information on this site. The replies based on hearsay, and perceived knowledge have very little benefit to me. Especially peoples opinions of products they have not used. I really get a little irritated when people post negative opinions of products they have not used. Recommendations of products you have used are one thing, and a good thing. Criticisms of products you have used is also good, but must be tempered with the thought that maybe you didn’t learn to use it properly. But criticizing something you don’t have direct experience with is irresponsible. What your friend told you doesn’t count either.I hope that any information I can post is helpful because I have direct experience, and/or can offer a unique perspective. Fewer opinions on subjects that people are not knowledge about would cut the clutter and increase the quality of information available. It’s probably not a reasonable expectation, but I can only hope.

Kevin B · Jan 5, 2006

Here's a good example.....

I just read this post over at the Contessa site and feel it is a good example of the type of poster this thread is talking about. Anyone who puts so little effort into his original post is probably never going to be heard from again.contessa 38 Submitted by peter mead of Lymington on 01/05 at 11:10AM regarding Contessa 38. info from owmers required by prospective purchaser Contessa 38 or Dawn 39 ONLY Regards,Kevin

Dan Johnson · Jan 5, 2006

Pay by Word

Kevin, mayby the Contessa guy has to pay his ISP by the word....LOL!Jon, sometimes a best guess is all the help that can be offered, given the brevity of the question or the lack of detail of the problem. Trust me, when your 310 gets to be 20 years old you'll be doing a lot more guessing too! That's part of the fun of boat ownership! I agree with your comment about unsubstatiated opinions, though. It makes it more difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, metaphorically speaking.S/V Intrepid H34 #113

Anchor Down · Jan 6, 2006

Jon W.

You're never going to get your wish. This kind of anonymous environment makes everyone an instant expert, whether he has relevant experience or not. I've been guilty of passing along information or opinions to others which I had no experience with myself, and my ego is only semi-huge.I agree, civility and actually doing the work to cite your references (as I tell all my English students they must do, remember, everyone?) will go a long way toward building a welcoming environment for newcomers, and will encourage other "experts" to do the same. But it will never be totally corrected, because the temptation to spout off, whether to make ourselves feel useful or just to boost our egos, is too large.When I was younger and a novice at rock climbing, I almost abandonded the sport out of frustration. I was surrounded by self-important gearheads who didn't want to take the time to actually get down on my level and teach me anything. But then I found one kind soul who threw me a lifeline, so to speak.The pity is that those who really need to rethink their posting habits will read these words, but not digest their meaning.

PY charlie · Jan 6, 2006

I agree with Garry.........

Garry @S/V TASHTEGO"We should all note that this BB is probably the most civilized out there. Have a look at some others. You'll find many of them are full of rants, insults and bad information. This is by far the best sailing BB I've seen on the web."I agree with you Garry !! I happen to be a founding father of another BB, but not related to sailing. We have over 850 members with maybe 50 regulars. Like this one members share information with other owners,and tell of their experiences. We have been on the net close to ten years now. And yes it is nice to be able to go to this site and read others oPYnions on various issues and topics.. Isn't the internet neato? Instead of sharing at your individual marina or club you can now share with the whole world.To the founding father ('s) and moderators of this great bbs THANK YOU! and a GOOD JOB!py charlie

Capt Ron;-) · Jan 7, 2006

False trails for newbies

Jon W, You are right and a courages statement too. Yes indeed, I have seen some off-the wall info put out there, by bluffers that do not have the experience.One fellow, that is a good fixer-upper guy, lives aboard in Oyster Point, and gives out information he knows nothing about as has no ocean experience. The trouble is, this is the REAL world, and deaths could occur from folks handing down info they know nothing about.I ahve seen lots of this from scuttle-butt, and sleeping, eating and working on a yacht does not give you experience to handle a storm. Reading can help, but many of these self-apointed "Gods" are far from the mark, and have never experienced the real thing either.As far as folks not calling in with 'thank you' or inf as "this was a godsend" this is the nature of helping others.I normally get paid for marine advice, and not looking for any thank yous.A tid-bit, my ICOM hand held gets good reception on the USCG repeaters from the Mexican border to Canada.

I have a complaint

Pete

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r.w.landau

Garry @ S/V TASHTEGO

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PY charlie

Capt Ron;-)

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