Hunter Passage 450 keel issues?

[JoiedeVivre]

Hi all, I'm considering purchasing a 1998 Passage 450 for cruising Southeast Asia. There's tons I love about the boat, but my research has raised some frightening potential issues with the keels on these boats. I am trying to determine whether these are one off anomalies that have been amplified on the web, or whether they are serious concerns for my intended use.

1) Problems with foam-filled keel void leading to rotten foam and the potential to rust the keel bolts. It is my understanding that this does not require a hard grounding to occur but can be caused by normal use where the motion of the boat leads to a "keel smile" that allows water to penetrate. Perhaps repeated soft groundings can speed the problem. The fix requires dropping the keel, scooping out the foam and filling the void with epoxy - a major undertaking to say the least.

How common is this?

2) Structural compromise of the internal grid. The Youtubers For Love of Wind document this on their 450. It appears their boat must have suffered a hard grounding, but the problem seems to stem from Hunter having gel coated the grid before fiberglassing it into the boat. Since they didn't remove the gelcoat the polyester resin Hunter used couldn't achieve a chemical bond resulting in a weak link.

I'm not planning on a hard grounding, but where I'm going charts are notoriously inaccurate. The reason I like Hunter over Beneteau is that Beneteau glues their grid in instead of fiberglassing it, but this, if common, might negate that advantage.

I would love to hear comments from those with actual experience with these boats. I assume a good survey could tell me whether the boat I'm considering already has either of these issues, but I want the boat to last me through my retirement.

 

[jssailem]

It would seem that what you need is not the opinions, even though they are responsible here on SBO. What would be most helpful for the kind of money you are going to spend, the length of time you desire to enjoy the boat, and the water you intend to explore is the help of a knowledgeable skipper who has spent many miles on the open ocean.

Two come to mind. John Harries (Attainable Adventure Cruising) and James Evenson (https://leadsman.ai/about-us)

 

[JoiedeVivre]

Thanks John. What I'm seeking is to know whether these are common problems that many Hunter 450 owners encounter or if they are rare. I have found evidence that both HAVE happened, but I don't know whether it was bad luck (maybe a lemon) or is something that occurs frequently with these particular boats. I figured that the two groups likely to know the answer to that are Hunter owners or surveyors who do a lot of Hunters.

Figured I'd start here.

 

[dlochner]

I'm not planning on a hard grounding, but where I'm going charts are notoriously inaccurate. The reason I like Hunter over Beneteau is that Beneteau glues their grid in instead of fiberglassing it, but this, if common, might negate that advantage.

The issue with Beneteaus is the type of glue use, over time it ages and becomes brittle and easily cracked. See this video from James Everson:

and this report on the Cheeky Rafiki:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov...

I watched this video from Love of Wind, where they start grinding into the problem areas.

They have issues big time. The least serious problem is the gelcoat void on the keel, the first area they ground out. This is not an uncommon problem with inside corners. When the boat is built, gelcoat is sprayed in first and then the glass is laid up. Glass likes straight lines and doesn't like small radius corners, sometimes the glass pulls away from the gelcoat and no-one notices. This leaves a void between the glass and the hull and is not a structural problem.

The other areas on the outside keel sump looks like it could be either the early stage of blistering, a poor layup probably with resin starved glass, there just wasn't enough resin to form a good bond with the next layer(s) of glass, or the result of a hard grounding. The cause is poor workmanship.

The inside problems with the glass and tabbing is more serious. If this damage is towards the aft end of the keel the cause may be the result of a hard grounding which would have pushed the aft end of the keel up, separating the grid from the hull and potentially causing delamination to the hull as well as other damage to the interior structure. There is also the possibility that poor layup contributed to the damage.

Any boat that has a hard grounding will have damage. By hard grounding I mean at full speed against a solid object that completely stops the boat, like running into a rock ledge, not a glancing blow or running into a sandbar or mudbank. Thus I would not take this video as evidence for or against buying a Hunter 450. It is however strong evidence for hiring a competent surveyor who is familiar with Hunters before purchasing one. Of all the production boats made in the US over the years, Hunter seems to have the most conflicted reputation. Here on SBO there is a large base of Hunter Owner's who rarely express negative opinions about their boat. That may not be the case on other forums.

Here's a photo of the kind of keel damage that can be done in a hard grounding. On this boat not only was the lead pushed back there was hull delamination at the aft end of the keel and at least one fiberglass encased wood floor was cracked.

 

[Terry Cox]

1) Problems with foam-filled keel void leading to rotten foam and the potential to rust the keel bolts.

Never heard of such a thing, Our boat, very likely like the 450, has a solid lead keel, not filled with foam, where they used SS studs to secure the keel to the solid FRP stub. Does this particular boat have a compromised keel stub joint? If so, a picture would help. Cracks like that do not occur from regular use, but from a strike/grounding of some sort. Ours had one In 2004. A local yard did the repair and it has remained solid ever since after thousands of cruising miles.