Hunter 456 rudder issue

[henric]

Hi,

I need to loosen the rudder and lower it down. I have some damage at the top of the rudder that I need to see how to repair (Image 1). My thoughts are whats keeping the rudder from falling down? Is it the tiller level and the sprint (Image 2)? I´m a little bit concerned if something else like the carbon fiber sleeve are damage, since I guess that kind of parts is not available in Sweden.

Best regards
Henric / Atlantic Rose / Sweden

 

[smokey73]

2nd picture is interesting. The rudder is held up by the clamping force of the radial around the rudder shaft AND the through bolt that can be easily seen inside of the hollow shaft. If you look carefully, you can see a glimpse of the threaded clamping bolt on each side of the radial between the two halves of the radial. What I find interesting is the large amount of "weld" buildup particularly on the upper right of the radial clamping area. Has this radial been repaired? These parts are normally either cast or machined and the I don't ever recall seeing that much weld buildup on a radial. Plus, it is pretty sloppy for a shop manufactured part. Can you reach the head and the bolt on each side to be able to loosen the clamping bolts. Can you get a wrench on the main thru-bolt? All these may be difficult to remove.

Also, the rudder is normally designed to be "neutrally buoyant" but if it is waterlogged, it may be very heavy. I assume you are out of the water so you don't have to worry about it dropping out but with the clamping bolts loosened and the thru-bolt removed it should come right out. Is your shaft fiberglass?

 

[henric]

2nd picture is interesting. The rudder is held up by the clamping force of the radial around the rudder shaft AND the through bolt that can be easily seen inside of the hollow shaft. If you look carefully, you can see a glimpse of the threaded clamping bolt on each side of the radial between the two halves of the radial. What I find interesting is the large amount of "weld" buildup particularly on the upper right of the radial clamping area. Has this radial been repaired? These parts are normally either cast or machined and the I don't ever recall seeing that much weld buildup on a radial. Plus, it is pretty sloppy for a shop manufactured part. Can you reach the head and the bolt on each side to be able to loosen the clamping bolts. Can you get a wrench on the main thru-bolt? All these may be difficult to remove.

Also, the rudder is normally designed to be "neutrally buoyant" but if it is waterlogged, it may be very heavy. I assume you are out of the water so you don't have to worry about it dropping out but with the clamping bolts loosened and the thru-bolt removed it should come right out. Is your shaft fiberglass?

Hi Smokey!

Thanks for your reply, then my guess was right. Thanks. And your comment is interesting, I haven´t done any repair but I don´t know if earlier owner has made one without telling me. I have attached one image and its seems quite easy to reach with an allen key (? not sure if that´s correct name). She is out water for 3 more weeks, in Sweden we lift them up in oktober and back in may. So I still have time and I will try to loosen it tomorrow. Difficult to see but it looks like in fiberglass with some hollow steel rod. I guess I will see better tomorrow when I removing it.

Thanks,

//Henric

 

[artboas]

Hi Smokey!

Thanks for your reply, then my guess was right. Thanks. And your comment is interesting, I haven´t done any repair but I don´t know if earlier owner has made one without telling me. I have attached one image and its seems quite easy to reach with an allen key (? not sure if that´s correct name). She is out water for 3 more weeks, in Sweden we lift them up in oktober and back in may. So I still have time and I will try to loosen it tomorrow. Difficult to see but it looks like in fiberglass with some hollow steel rod. I guess I will see better tomorrow when I removing it.

Thanks,

//Henric

I don’t believe the rudder tiller arm has been repaired. These parts are aluminum, and have been anodized black after machining. They would have been cast parts, which would have been machined to size after casting. The last step is anodizing
Also, there is no way this tiller arm would have broken without substantial visible damage to other parts.
What slightly confuses me is the gap between the top of the rudder and the rudder post. Usually there is only a small gap. But, the rudder does float once the boat is launched,
However, with this huge gap, the rudder will bang into the hull as your boat goes through waves.
I suspect the Delrin bushing has cracked, and fallen out.
The rudders were made by Foss Foam
I suggest you contact them with questions.

 

[smokey73]

@artboas I agree that a tiller arm is generally cast aluminum or possibly some other alloy that is then machined to final shape and anodized. What I think I am seeing is what looks like weld deposit "waves" which are not consistent with a casting/machining process. Of course I might be wrong but it sure looks like weld buildup. I have done a lot of weld inspection in my time and is sure looks like welding deposits. The rest of the tiller arm does look like cast/machined metal. If I got my tiller arm looking like that from the factory it would be shipped back for replacement. Have you ever seen a cast or machined surface that looked like that in image 2 of Post #1? It is not a terrible looking weld and I don't see any porosity or undercut so I am not saying it is inadequate or unsafe, just unusual?

 

[henric]

Hi, thanks all for your help. I have no other Hunter to look at in Sweden, I have the only Passage here but I have contacted Foss Foam and waiting for their reply. But it seems like something is missing on the top of the rudder and thats probably why the gelcoat has cracked. So I still need to loose the rudder which is really hard, the screews are so far impossible to untighten. Thanks, //Henric.

 

[smokey73]

@henric What happens is the stainless bolts and aluminum tiller arm material corrode and are very difficult to remove. The 4 clamping bolts (two on each side) are particularly difficult to remove. Make sure you do not bugger up the bolt head or you'd be in a difficult position. If this is an Edson steering system (which it probably is) you can call Edson and talk with one of the reps there. I did and he had the follow suggestion. HOWEVER, I DO NOT ADVOCATE DOING THIS WITHOUT TALKING TO THEM FIRST. They suggested drilling a small hole from the top of the radial (mine was a radial, not a tiller arm) and soaking the top bolt with something like PB Blaster dripped down the small hole. It may take heat to the tiller arm too, but if that is a fiberglass rudder post HEAT MAY BE ILL ADVISED. Once you remove the top bolt, extend the drill hole down to the bottom bolt and repeat. Based on the shape of your tiller arm you may be able to drill from the side, not the top. AGAIN, TALK TO THEM FIRST. Once you have all clamping bolts removed you will need to remove the center pin (looks like a pin, not a bolt on yours). DO NOT HAMMER ON ONE END TO REMOVE - YOU'LL PEEN OVER THE PIN AND IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO DRIVE IT OUT. In our case, the yard cut the bolt in the center to form a "gap." They then used some sort of hydraulic portable tool to put into the gap and push the pin out from the center. You'll have to replace the pin for sure.

All of these methods could result in damage to your tiller arm so be mentally prepared to replace the tiller arm and know the where to get it. I would not undertake any of these methods without talking to the manufacturer of your steering tiller arm or without the experience of a capable yard.