Hunter 37C Rudder Drop

[Rumbero]

New owner here of a 1984 37C. Will be replacing my rudder and am a bit puzzled by how the rudder is kept in place.

I observed the quadrant (as well as I could) and the rudder packing gland beneath. I have read former posts about dropping the rudder, and understand the quadrant must come off and the upper Delrin round bearing too.

My question is: where is the thru bolt into the rudder stock which keeps the rudder from dropping out the bottom? Is it solely the upper Delrin round bearing? Or is there something else holder the rudder in place which I can’t see?

Thanks in advance for your help. I will be doing a bunch of upgrades on this boat over the next 8 months prior to pointing it south.

 

[Johnb]

We replaced our rudder in 2019. I will post pictures when I get back home next week. Recommend you plan on replacing the log as well.

 

[Jim Legere]

You are correct - it is the upper Delrin bearing, which is thru-bolted, that keeps the rudder from "dropping out". If the rudder is in good condition (i.e. not waterlogged) it floats or is neutrally buoyant. If you are removing the quadrant and bearing in the water, it is advisable to loop some rope under the rudder and winch it tight in case the rudder is waterlogged. New rudders are/were available from Foss Foam, Florida. The rudder gland can even be repacked in the water on a calm day. Sorry, I can't recall the packing size, but it was an ordinary flax, square packing.

 

[Justin_NSA]

My H30 has a bolt through the quadrant and the rudder post to keep it from dropping out. You are on the hard right? Depending on how high your boat sits, you may have to dig a hole for the post to clear the hull.

 

[Rumbero]

Thank you for your replies, and a new question:

I am replacing with a new new rudder, which I expect to be more buoyant than the current one which has some water in it.

What prevents the rudder from riding “up” and coming in contact with the bottom of the hull? I’m not seeing any kind of spacer/sleeve between the bottom of the rudder stock and the hull. While the friction of the steering cables on the radial wheel/quadrant would tend to keep the rudder “down”, that’s not its purpose.

Anyone know how the rudder was originally designed from riding “up”—especially in a seaway?

(By the way, the quadrant came off relatively easily. The key was to remove the aluminum “C” channel which served as the rudder stop. There was no real corrosion between the quadrant and the stainless steel bolts bolting the two halves together. Lucky!)

 

[Rumbero]

So rudder successfully dropped and transported home. New rudder ordered from Foss Foam in Florida.

Takeaways (after digging a big hole under the rudder):

1. Once the quadrant/radial wheel was completely removed, only the upper “donut” Delrin bearing held the rudder in the boat.

2. With a friend, I ran a piece of 7/16” line from one side side of the stern (bowline through the mooring line gate), under the rudder, up to a snatch block on the other side, and then over to the primary winch in the cockpit. Had to mess with the length of the strop as hung from the stern push pit in order to get the angle from the snatch block to the winch just right.

3. Friend winched in the line which forced the rudder “up” slightly, allowing removal of the Delrin donut. Very easy.

4. We then assumed the rudder would drop cleanly if we then eased the line under the rudder. Didn’t happen. The rudder “stuffing box” turned with the rudder shaft and wouldn’t let go. My “stuffing box” does not look like the normal 3 bolt Edson-type into which you insert packing. Mine is a bronze 4 bolt affair that doesn’t seem to have packing of any kind. The two halves of the contraption were tightened down such that the whole “stuffing box” was rotating inside the rubber hose coming up from the lower bearing. There was no hose clamp at the the top of the rubber hose securing the lower portion of the “box”. Alarming, but I had a rudder to drop.

5. Applied some PB blaster at the interface of the “box” and the rudder shaft. A few taps with a hammer on the “box” and repeat. Still stubborn.

6. Removed the 4 bolts holding the two halves of the “box” together. Gently tapped a steel putty knife around the seam until I had separation of the 2 halves. Then I went below and twisted the rudder back and forth while my buddy eased the line a little. At first nothing. Then with a little more twisting the rudder started to slowly drop. In retrospect I could have tried tapping the stuffing box upward on the post after separating the two halves, but I had a general aversion to tapping too much on the bronze for fear of deforming it in some way. But the slow twisting of the rudder with its weight against the hose allowed the two halves of the “box” to slowly ride up the shaft and the rudder to slowly drop.

I’m going to try to figure out if there is a better solution to sealing off the rudder post where it exits the rubber hose on top of the “volcano”/lower rudder bearing. I can’t seem to find any proper 2.5” rudder stuffing boxes—like the Edsons—which are low profile enough to fit underneath the steering radial. Maybe, upon replacement, the new rudder post will rotate freely in the old “stuffing box” and I can get a hose clamp on the top end of the hose up from the lower bearing. But I have my doubts.

Any 37C owners out there who have solved this problem?

 

[heritage]

This link might help:

Rudder packing material on Hunter Cherubini

I need help again on my H30. I want to replace the packing on my rudder. As far as I can tell, it looks like a thin material that is compressed between the 2 flanges on the rudder post. It looks like a pita to get to the 3 bolt heads since the steering cable sheave is on top of the flanges. I...

forums.sailboatowners.com

My 84 Hunter 27 has packing in the rudder stuffing box. I don't remember if it had three or four bolts compressing the gland material. You can change the packing while in the water as it is above the water line.

 

[Angus Fleming]

Rumbero,

On my 1979 37c I didn't like the very short hose connection so I roughed up the bronze three bolt stuffing box and inserted some bronze screws to increase grip and glassed it to the thru hull 'volcano'. I also added some FRP webs with limber holes to steady it and spread the load to the hull. Sorry, couldn't find any photo's of it, and won't be aboard for a week or so. The modification has performed well in so far as it's caused me no problems unlike the leaking and subsequent delamination of the rudder which I decided to rebuild. Sliding the rudder in and out has been problem free, I glassed the stuffing box with the rudder stock in place so it lined up with the top bearing and there is no lateral movement.
To your question about riding up, my top bearing consists of a bottom 'donut' on shaft, a delrin block surface to ride against on the support structure underside, a second delrin washer / surface on the top side and an upper 'donut' to keep the rudder falling down when out of the water.
Hope this helps
Angus

 

[Rumbero]

Thanks to Angus for the described solution for preventing the rudder from riding up. I am going to follow that advice with respect to a matching Delvin block surface under the plywood strongback. One other idea I read was to then add a 2.5” shaft zinc collar under that to prevent the shaft from riding up. I like the idea because it is adjustable and removable without too much fuss, and I don’t have to be concerned with getting a hole drilled just right for bolt through the lower donut as used by Angus. I’ll let you know where I land.

 

[Angus Fleming]

I don’t think mine are through bolted, just machined for a snug fit and three bolts tapped in at 120 degrees around the circumference. I had a local machinist turn them on his lathe

 

[Rumbero]

Update: I have taken the old hose off the lower rudder bearing (“Volcano”) and I don’t lIke what I see. The short glassed “tube” coming up from the volcano looks like it has had a fair amount of wear, and the walls are not of a uniform thickness. I’ve decided to have this area rebuilt and strengthened before installing the new rudder.

To solve the problem of the new rudder riding “up” in a big sea state, I had a local plastics shop fabricate a 1/2” thick, delrin, square plate to match the one on top of the strongback. This one will be located under the strongback and bolt through to the top 1” square 5.75“ x 5.75” plate under the delrin collar. Cost was $30 for this piece. I’m then going to use a stainless 2.5” shaft collar under the new lower plate to prevent the rudder from riding ”up”.

 

[Rumbero]

Looking for input from any H37C owners who have addressed/upgraded/repaired the lower rudder bearing.

Because I have offshore plans for my boat, I’m looking to beef up (in particular) the lower rudder bearing. I’ve attached photos of mine, both with the rudder post in and out. You can see the uneven wear of the fiberglass tube coming up from the “volcano”. Before putting in the new rudder from Foss Foam I’m curious as to how others (Angus has chimed in—Thank you!) have addressed this.

I’m curious if anyone has figured out the original fabrication of this area. Is there a separate fiberglass tube which was stuffed into the “volcano” beneath all the way to the bottom, and then glassed around above it? Or was the fiberglass tube, to which the hose attaches, placed on top of the “volcano” and glassed in?

I’m toying with getting rid of the fiberglass tube/hose/packing gland in favor of a Tides Marine lower bearing with integrated seal. Has anyone done this?

Anyone grind off an uneven tube (like mine) from the volcano and glass in a new structural fiberglass tube to accommadate the 2.5” rudder shaft?

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Jim Legere]

On my H37C, I just followed the method recommended in the West System Fiberglass Boat Repair and Maintenance manual. That is to say I waxed the rudder shaft, put the rudder in place with modelling clay sealing the bottom of the rudder tube and filled the "volcano" with some epoxy resin mixed with graphite power. I had a moment of panic when the rudder seemed stuck in the tube, but it came back out with a bit of wiggling. The rudder tube was back to spec again and there was no play in the rudder...success! Don't overthink this.

 

[Rumbero]

An update on the rudder replacement and rebuilding of the lower bearing (Volcano). I’ve attached some photos of the removed Volcano from the boat. You can see that the original glassing was very rough and uneven. It was removed by a worker in the yard who used a sawzall with a long flexible blade, and simple cut right to left. The first two photos show the volcano removed.

The next four photos show the removed volcano from different angles.

We then used the old rudder shaft—cut just above the blade—to position the new fiberglass rudder tube over the exit hole in the bottom of the boat. The right tube for this is Centek rudder tube and has the precise outside (3”) and inside diameters ( 2 7/8”) to accommodate the (1) existing rudder stuffing box, (2) the shaft log hose (3” ID), and (3) the rudder shaft diameter (2 1/2”). The fiberglass tube (1 foot) and shaft log hose were sourced from Fisheries Supply here is Seattle:

Centek 1100224 | Fisheries Supply

Save More on Your Centek #1100224 Shaft Log / Rudder Post Housing, 2.625" ID, 3" OD (0.188") at Fisheries Supply. Excellent Customer Service, Ready to Ship. Marine Supplies Since 1928!

www.fisheriessupply.com

Buck Algonquin 80HO300 | Fisheries Supply

Save More on Your Buck Algonquin #80HO300 Packing Box Hoses, 3" ID x 5-1⁄2" Long at Fisheries Supply. Excellent Customer Service, Ready to Ship. Marine Supplies Since 1928!

www.fisheriessupply.com

The old shaft was suspended by a 2.5” shaft collar above the upper bearing on the strongback. The shaft was then waxed where it would pass through the new lower bearing tube. After cutting the new lower bearing tube to match the angle of the removed volcano, we set it in some thickened epoxy and positioned it so the space between the old 2.5” shaft and the inside diameter of the new fiberglass tube was consistent all the way around. Then some light glassing was done around the tube and it was left to set up overnight (last photo).

Since then, a couple of fiberglass gussets were glassed into the forward portion of the new tube, and additional glass reinforcement is slated for this weekend. The result should be an improvement on the original. I‘m scheduled to install the new rudder this coming week, then I’ll bolt all the steering related things back together.

Hope this helps others thinking of tackling this.