Hunter 23.5 in the Florida keys, are we crazy?

[MKennon]

Hi all,
I have searched, and here are the questions I can't find answers for, I hope you can help.

We live in Missouri, and We bought a 1993 Hunter 23.5 last year. Our dream is to sail in the islands one day soon. We want to explore the islands and snorkel, dive and adventure the whole way. After sailing "Ziggy" and doing our research, the South Florida Keys seems like the place to start. I've had a hard time finding solid info that this is even doable, and- or if I am over-shooting the boats ability for distance for the time we will have. I'm thinking we will have 10-14 days, 7 days on the water. As for operator level, I am very confident in a powerboat, the sailboat makes me a little nervous, though I am quite willing to push some limits. I have a few questions:

- I have Used these items as resource:
- Everything I can find on google
- This website, especially the Trailor sailor forum (which has been great!)
- The Boat Galley: Florida Keys Quick Reference (I Will have 1 awesome dog)
- Cruising the Keys, 2nd Edition by Claiborne Young
- I Have been studying charts and watching "WINDY" every day

1.We have a 4HP motor, which handles the boat well in the lake, we have spent a lot of time on the boat his last year. We often camp multiple days, and as van goers the small space has been no problem. We can sail in 4+ Knots of wind, we are comfortable in 8-10 Knots, we reef early and often at 10-14 knots, for our boat we 2nd reef and/or motor past 15 knots. we get wild gusts on the lake we're in. I am planning on MOTORING A LOT as it will be our first time in the ocean and I feel safer under motor. cruising speed around 5 MPH, Top speed around 8. Avg 3-6 MPH on sail. We burn around 1/3 GAL per hour and can hold 8 Gallons.
----- - Can we handle ourselves in this region?

2. I am outfitting Ziggy now with all of the ocean basics I can. We just added an auto tiller, Garmin chart plotter with GPS/ Navionics, VHF, paddleboard dinghy, coast guard safety equipment basics (fire equipment, flares, PFD, etc.) Backup cell phone Garmin Navionics
----- -Is This enough to start to explore?

3. We plan on putting in somewhere between Marathon and Big Pine Key.
----- -Is this a good spot to launch? and can we make it back up if the wind picks up?

4. Will an inflatable paddle board be a good enough dinghy, or should we bring a motored small hard bottom with us?

5. We plan on launching near Marathon and heading NW to loop the backwater Keays to Key West. We are thinking protected waters are our safest bet. If conditions are perfect when we get there, maybe we'll try some time on the East coast of Marathon to see Sombrero Key. Am I crazy to think our boat can handle this?

6. Is "Sea-Tow" or "TowBoat" active here? and are they reliable?

--- Picture of our current plan attached:

 

[David in Sandusky]

First your boat can handle all of your planned cruising. This is not the Atlantic Ocean! We chartered an 33 footer out of Marathon, and I sailed a Sunfish out of Key West for two years. On the northwest side of the keys there is lots of very protected water and anchorages. We also anchored off Bahia Honda in west winds. There can be lots of lobster pots, but they are easy to miss. We didn’t need to use our motor at all, except leaving or entering port.

Your inflatable paddleboard will work fine. Bear in mind that much of the keys shores are mangrove, so you have to find a beach or dock to go ashore.

I would not worry to much about big winds outside of hurricane season. I only remember one day above 25 knots in the two years we were there. You just hole up in a safe place while a front blows through.

Your equipment is fine for coastal cruising anywhere If you have a depth guage - definitely needed in the keys. We snorkled all around Key West and some of the other keys. Saw lots of cool fish and crustaceans.

Bon voyage!

 

[Will Gilmore]

The Florida Keys is an ideal area in which to cut your teeth on ocean sailing. Study your charts, watch your draft, don't hit any reefs or ground in a shifting shoal. The only suggestions I would add to your list of safety equipment are, include a VHF radio, incase you get outside cell reception. There is plenty of boat traffic that someone is most likely near by to hear a VHF hail. And two, being a second anchor and rode with at least ten feet of chain.

This is ocean sailing and it will feel quite different than lake sailing. There will be waves, and distances will look different. Your sails are your friends. They can make a rough sea state a like more comfortable than just motoring alone. Take the time to experience the different ways to rig and set and trim for it.

Sounds like a great time, and Marathon is an excellent place to start and finish. They have the best and most complete facilities in the Keys, including Fisherman's Hospital and a full service marina.

-Will

 

[THECUSCUS]

You do not say what month you plan to go. From my experience (4 trailer trips to the Keys), it is windy (15plus) most days December through April. While Marathon offers a lot, it is crowded and not the best area to do day sailing and see things. In my experience, Biscayne Bay, Card Sound, Barnes Sound and Blackwater Sound offer the best sailing, close to everything you would need (grocery, gas, restaurants). Boca Chita, Stiltsville, Elliot Key, Gilberts tiki bar, Alabama Jacks, are just afew of the things to see/do. Parking/storage can be expensive, so do a lot of research. Check John Pennecamp Park and Bahia Honda Park. They have ramps, parking and mooring options. Both are "oceanside", so your options are limited. Your 4hp may not be enough if its windy/lumpy out there. I have a 9.9 on my MacGregor 25 and that was very adequate.
Its a great experience to trailer your boat that far ( i drive down from Maryland) and certainly an adventure worth doing. Take it slow, dont' plan too much and don't make a firm schedule (the weather will always be a facture)

 

[Johann]

We had a 23.5 that we moved from a lake to Pensacola and sailed it there for several years. We took it to Destin on the ICW and out in the Gulf on occasion when it was nice. The long shaft 4hp was inadequate in power and length. The prop would come out of the water frequently, so we upgraded to a Tohatsu 6hp with a 25” shaft. That motor worked great.

 

[rgranger]

Sounds perfect. In addition to Navonics, I would add the Windy App to your collection of aids.

I also have two of these.... two of my kids independently saw them and thought "Dad would like that".... and I do...
...

https://www.amazon.com/Solar-Charger-Power-Bank-Charging/dp/B0BPRT2MF9/ref=asc_df_B0BPRT2MF9/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=647402672393&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7035220249544554975&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010316&hvtargid=pla-1958347088362&psc=1&mcid=aa0e7c4004e13760b5d75adc4a7a525b

They are really handy and keep the phone and tablet topped off... so I can use Windy and Navonics when I need to. I would do a little research on your phone carrier. I use Verizon and typically have no trouble getting reception as far out as 2 miles. I would start another thread about service and reception for your carrier in the regions you plan to sail.

 

[JeepN3RD]

Just wanted to "WATCH" this thread and ask you / folks responding, when you launch I assume they will have a good place to park the truck/trailer for several days up to the entire 2ish weeks? I am very interested in this trip and doing it myself and would want to stay on the water for a week or 2. So just thinking about my vehicle as part of that planning process. (OP are you coming in each night or also planning on spending nights on the water?)

 

[rgranger]

Active captain used to be a great way to find local marinas and I would call ahead and ask about parking. AC is not as easy to use now that Garmin gobbled it up.

You might have luck getting a slot at a Public Storage or similar business. I parked my boat trailer at a Public Storage for $140/mo. Public Storage allows you to have a month by month lease and you can do it all online.

Google shows that PS is active in Florida

 

[dlochner]

2. I am outfitting Ziggy now with all of the ocean basics I can. We just added an auto tiller, Garmin chart plotter with GPS/ Navionics, VHF, paddleboard dinghy, coast guard safety equipment basics (fire equipment, flares, PFD, etc.) Backup cell phone Garmin Navionics
----- -Is This enough to start to explore?

If you already have an iPad or Android tablet consider getting AquaMaps, very reasonably priced for an annual subscription and good charting. They also include both Active Captain and Waterway Guide reviews. Charts are updated almost daily.

Anchoring in the Keys can be a bit tricky in some spots. The bottom is often a layer of sand over limestone. If the sand is deep the anchoring is decent, where the sand is thin, there's no holding. This is a real issue around Key West. The Wisteria Island anchorage is better than the other one, but not by much.

 

[shemandr]

I don't think I would consider Hawk Channel ocean sailing. Large swells are broken by the reef. You can have a nasty chop or just nice sailing in 15 Kts. It is relatively shallow but not much of a concern as far as running aground unless you attempt to navigate to near shore where there are shoals. But it is well marked and an advantage of relatively clear water is that shallow areas are pretty easy to see.
I think there is a general West to East bias to the wind so going from Marathon to Key West is a nice downwind leg. Coming back maybe not so.

 

[heritage]

Bahia Honda State Park has a boat ramp and is a great spot for snorkeling and swimming. I would call them and ask about storing the trailer for a few days.

 

[shemandr]

For Bahia Honda you’ll need advance reservations. Maybe well in advance.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

All the contributors have given you good advice. I can tell you for coastal cruising, you are underpowered with the 4 hp. 6 hp long shaft and 8hp should be considered. I was a dealer who also submitted the original plans of the 23.5 to Hunter

 

[shemandr]

[QUOTE="shemandr, post: 1812410, member: 77923”] … I think there is a general West to East bias to the wind so going from Marathon to Key West is a nice downwind leg. Coming back maybe not so. [/QUOTE]

I think I meant from East to West. Stricken by the dreaded reversal between the ears syndrome. Prevailing wind in Southern FL is SE. Maybe less so in the waters off the keys where it might be more Southerly.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

@MKennon

I will be glad to talk with you about trailering and mast raising tips based on my involvement with the design plus selling nearly a quarter of the production line

Dave condon

 

[MKennon]

Thanks everyone for Your advice! You've given me more to research. @Crazy Dave Condon Thanks for the offer, We trailered from home last year, so we got pretty good rigging and trailering. I will look into a more appropriate powerplant

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

@MKennon

if you ever have any questions about the 23.5, trailer or mast raising system, feel free to contact me. The original design of the boat along with the mast raising system came from me

 

[MKennon]

Thanks for all of the reply's! We finally got to make the trip last weekend! (Last week of March) Woah, what a drive with the boat. I'm glad we have a nicer trailer than OEM.

I'd like to leave this for anyone wanting to try a similar trip: here's what what we found.

I struggled to find info for this trip. We had a blast, but I would have done it a little different now. I especially didn't understand the weather patterns in the Keys.

I talked to all of the options for Marina's, launch sites, and truck/trailer storage I could find. We stayed at Bahia Honda for the week for around $240 including truck and trailer parking. Bahia Honda (or similar) is the only option I would consider again. Launching was a breeze and We had our truck to use when the wind picked up and we couldn't go out with the boat. Easy access to the Atlantic, and lowering the mast while on the water is easy enough on our boat to access the Gulf side (Good job Crazy Dave!). In my newly learned opinion, access to your truck is a must. We ended up driving around exploring the keys more than were able to on the boat. The price, parking, amenities, weather protection in the slips, and access from both the gulf and the Atlantic were absolutely necessary for our trip. I underestimated these items. We lowered our mast and returned under the gulf side bridge at night to escape 25mph winds with little problem. The journey on the Atlantic side under 7 mile bridge heading out took longer than we thought it would, and would have been a miserable trip back to the marina. The crab pots are no joke, We needed our charts and spotlights to navigate at night, its like a video game moving through them. I may have bumped one or two. We were in the water 7 days total, 2 sailing. We had 15mph winds to 30mph winds. 1ft seas building to 8 ft seas; of which we were sleeping in the marina getting absolutely rocked. We had thought we might be able to do a 5 day camp and cruise through this area. Monitoring weather radio is a must.

Weather was perfect on our first morning so we decided to try the Atlantic sail from Bahia Honda under 7 Mile Bridge. It felt awesome to get to sail the Atlantic for a moment, the clear water was beautiful. Getting to see the ground below us while we moved along was awesome. We both started to get motion sickness about 3/4 of the way to the bridge. we popped some motion pills and we motor sailed to get through. The Atlantic side even in good weather is a little much for us in this boat. Our new Garmin failed within a mile of shove-off, we bought Aqua Maps charts in a couple minutes and it kept us from making any mistakes with depth. Highly recommend Aqua maps. under the bridge to the Gulf side was considerably smoother sailing. Like glass water comparably.

The areas we sailed were very shallow even in our boat. We wanted to go to the islands and pulled up the rudder and keel often. We weren't able to get in range to paddle board to any of the keys, We hit ground hundreds of yards away from "land" at about 3 foot depth. We did find an accessible area in the Big Spanish Channel at a good anchorage inside little pine key. We were able to let the dog have a potty break atop some mangrove roots. We stayed the night here and it was glass smooth and absolutely beautiful. We did not find any land that we could reasonably access during our whole trip. We sailed through the big Spanish channel to the Gulf, the channel was very tight and even with charts I did ground on a sand bar coming back.

Our big goal was to get to the sandy shores of Content Key. The wind on the Gulf side was fantastic! The waves were again a little too much for our boat. We got to sail wing-on-wing to Content Key, Once we got there the waves were way too much for us to be able to anchor, no way we could paddle to them. It again was far too shallow hundreds of yards out from shore. I'm pretty sure we saw sand with the binoculars, We may never really know. We turned and motor sailed straight back to the channel.

Our 4hp shorty motor did great! If I frequented the ocean I'd get a 6-8hp long shaft. We were able to hold 4-5mph most of the time. The motor did not pull out of the water motor sailing in 3-5 ft seas, but I had to be very mindful of my placement to the waves. Without sails up I think this would have been much worse; I did hear it cavitate often. I probably ran the motor at 1/4- 3/4 throttle for 50 of our 70 miles we sailed. We burned a little over 3 gallons of fuel. We were trying to keep a pace to make it out to Content Key, which I think was a mistake. If we go again I will just enjoy the sailing West of 7 Mile bridge into the Big Spanish Channel. I would have liked a bigger motor to get some more speed, but we weren't in a hurry. Knowing we had plenty of fuel was a confidence builder. It did feel a little silly motoring out into the open Gulf with the 4hp humming, though it was a really neat experience.

Overall we seemed over prepared. The handheld radio was fine, I don't think we needed the mast antenna and boat radio. The trip and conditions were very much like a weekend out on our lake. Our boat could not comfortably reach miles out into the gulf or the Atlantic. We talked to some local sailors; it seems that the weather windows to sail are 1-3 days for small boats. Day trips and/or overnights are doable. Week long outings are probably unreasonable for a small craft. If we had known that we would have packed far less gear into the boat, left more in the truck, and planned for day cruises. Almost all of the sailing information I found applies to the Atlantic Coast. The gulf side of 7 mile bridge seems too shallow for most sailboats, it seems more suited to power boats. 1 week was too short water time. In our 7 days, we got 2 days out on the water with our weather window. 2-3 weeks would have been more satisfying for sure.

Snorkeling was kind of a bust. The current is so strong, We could barely swim back to the boat 50 feet. We threw out 100' of line on a paddle board, If we hadn't we would have been swept away. There wasn't much to see in the path we took. We did see some cool stuff from the boat, though. If the snorkel charters hadn't have been grounded due to wind, we would have paid for them to take us out for a day. they were cheap.

It was fun to cruise around the keys, it was beautiful. Watching the sun set off of the back of the cockpit at anchorage was a treat. We had a great adventure, I'm glad we made the trip. We wanted to try our hand at some ocean sailing, and we did it. We got to explore a lot by land. If we go again with this boat I would try a more northern keys trip, maybe John Pennekamp. We probably won't do this one again, we couldn't quite reach the places we wanted to get to.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Sounds like you had an adventurous trip. It is beautiful in the keys.

I've sailed my hobie 18 at Bahia Honda. The bay side is very shallow and the Gulf Stream is very exposed.

You would enjoy John Pennekamp. I also found it easier in Key West where the bay side is protected. Key Largo and Islamorada are perhaps better for facilities to launch and sail small boats. There was a nice campground on Fiesta Key, many years ago. Also a good place to park your car and trailer.

For your next trip, take a look at the Apalachicola to Carrabelle coastline, in the Florida panhandle. They are slow and quiet towns with some of the best seafood anywhere (shrimp and oysters). Plus it will save you almost 600 miles of driving.

-Will

 

[Rick Webb]

Pensacola to Apalachicola is a very interesting trip.