Hi, I Acquired a hunter 216 and during a storm it fell of the trailer and the internal fiberglass and foam shattered the outside of the hull is intact i eas just wondering if someone has a tip on how to fix the hull and if removing the top pf the boat would be a possibility for the fix
Hull repair
- Thread starter jarabethehunter216
- Start date
Welcome to SBO!
Wish the circumstances were different for you but there are lots of helpful people here
I also have a 216 so with your photos I understand how extensive the damage is.
I don’t feel that taking the entire top of the boat off would be a good idea as you would have a great deal of difficulty doing that and and even greater challenge getting it back together.
The first thing to understand is our boats and several other Hunter models were/are constructed using a three layer sandwich with the outer layer being Luran, middle foam and inner layer a more traditional Fibreglass Reinforced Plastic (FRP). The Luran is very resistant to puncture ( as your photos show
) but is harder to work with than FRP. There are several extensive threads here on SBO where owners such as @BobbyFunn have found ways to repair their boats, such as this one.
Parting out H170 in AZ
What other boats share the mast and boom sections? Looking for a boat that needs a mast but nothing interesting popping up. Everything is in super condition - except for the cockpit fiberglass. Mik
forums.sailboatowners.com
The good news is that the Luran layer is not destroyed so it’s more a matter of getting a “core” layer attached to it and then an FRP repair attached to the core.
I need to think a bit about what actual advice I can offer and will post again soon.
@jarabethehunter216
Can you provide some info on what applicable repair materials you have available in your country and your experience in using them?
Can you provide some info on what applicable repair materials you have available in your country and your experience in using them?
Thank you very much for all the facts and new facts I did not know right now this woul be my first major boat project on my first boat thank youWelcome to SBO!
Wish the circumstances were different for you but there are lots of helpful people here
I also have a 216 so with your photos I understand how extensive the damage is.
I don’t feel that taking the entire top of the boat off would be a good idea as you would have a great deal of difficulty doing that and and even greater challenge getting it back together.
The first thing to understand is our boats and several other Hunter models were/are constructed using a three layer sandwich with the outer layer being Luran, middle foam and inner layer a more traditional Fibreglass Reinforced Plastic (FRP). The Luran is very resistant to puncture ( as your photos show
There are several extensive threads here on SBO where owners such as @BobbyFunn have found ways to repair their boats, such as this one.
Parting out H170 in AZ
What other boats share the mast and boom sections? Looking for a boat that needs a mast but nothing interesting popping up. Everything is in super condition - except for the cockpit fiberglass. Mikforums.sailboatowners.com
The good news is that the Luran layer is not destroyed so it’s more a matter of getting a “core” layer attached to it and then an FRP repair attached to the core.
I need to think a bit about what actual advice I can offer and will post again soon.
So a few questions:
1) Are you positive that the outer Luran layer, shiny plastic surface doesn’t have any cracks or punctures? Frankly I’m amazed if it doesn’t as the force required to buckle the inside like that had to be considerable
2) I have attached an enlarged photo and highlighted an area that I think is cracked but not as badly damaged as the main area. Is this accurate?
Thanks for the responses on materials and your skill level. Sounds like this will all work out.
I would not put the boat in the water or try to sail it again before you get it fixed though!
1) Are you positive that the outer Luran layer, shiny plastic surface doesn’t have any cracks or punctures? Frankly I’m amazed if it doesn’t as the force required to buckle the inside like that had to be considerable
2) I have attached an enlarged photo and highlighted an area that I think is cracked but not as badly damaged as the main area. Is this accurate?
Thanks for the responses on materials and your skill level. Sounds like this will all work out.
I would not put the boat in the water or try to sail it again before you get it fixed though!
It looks like @Hunter216 is on the right path. You can buy an expanding epoxy foam. If that adheres well to Luran that might be a good way to build up the cavity left once you remove those busted pieces. Then do a traditional FRP patch on the inner skin.
I guess you could put a dab of epoxy on the inside skin of the Luran layer and see if it binds. If so then move forward with the foam epoxy.
I guess you could put a dab of epoxy on the inside skin of the Luran layer and see if it binds. If so then move forward with the foam epoxy.
Frankly I’m amazed if it doesn’t as the force required to buckle the inside like that had to be considerable
Even if there is no break, the buckling of the outer layer probably weakened around the impact. You may want to reinforce it with a few layers of glass on the inside before replacing the foam insulation. I don't have any expriencing with Luran, I don't even know what that is. I don't know if epoxy or polyester sticks to it, but all materials suffer from stress weakening when buckled and popped back into shape. Do a thorough assessment of the damaged area, peel back the foam and get a good look on the inside, as well as the outside.
-Will (Dragonfly)
On the positive side, there isn't a bulkhead right there and so it shouldn't be a highly stressed part of the hull while sailing. Also you have the cockpit molding there to stiffen the hull. So, I think once the repair is done you should be good to go. I don't know about Luran either.
So.... how best to assist you???
Perhaps I should start with I think it's important that you have some understanding of what I meant about "sandwich" construction. The sandwich in our boats is made of three layers of material that on their own aren't particularly strong, however when they are attached to each other the new "single" material is very strong.
Your outer layer Luran also referred to as ACP due to the impact is no longer "attached" to the next layer; the foam. It has delaminated so the strength of the "sandwich" is compromised. The same would hold true for areas where the foam and FRP layers have separated. Your challenge will be to get the layers of the sandwich back in place and ATTACHED to each other.
In most boat construction the sandwich is usually a FRP outer layer, a core that might be wood like balsa or in newer boats some type of composite material and an inner FRP layer. Certain solvents such as acetone are commonly used during construction or repair as they work well and don't harm the material.
Hunter decided to use alternative materials for the outer layer and core, namely the Luran and foam as they knew the Luran was extremely resistant to puncture (a good characteristic to have in a small boat that would likely get banged around). The BIG downside of Luran is a lot of solvents and in particular acetone will destroy that material so you have to be very careful in what materials come in contact with it. The other strong characteristics of Luran is that it does NOT attach to other materials easily and will crack or snap off if scored.
I'm not sure if you have had a chance to read the lengthy thread I linked above but @BobbyFunn found that Loctite PL3 construction adhesive doesn't harm the Luran, will attach to it and is the same with the foam layer so is a good candidate for getting the Luran layer attached to the foam layer. It is also fairly inexpensive and a common construction adhesive so hopefully something you can find locally. PL3 is somewhat messy to work with so have a plan and wear disposable rubber gloves, lay down some sheet plastic etc to make cleanup easier
The inner FRP layer materials again should be locally available as the resin, hardener and fibreglass cloth are all pretty common items. There are lots of different "types" of resin, speed of hardener and weave of cloth but the basic idea is you measure out a quantity of resin, add the appropriate amount of hardener and mix the two together. You then have a limited time to wet the cloth before the liquid resin starts to harden. This "hardening" process produces heat and fumes so be careful! It's not difficult but perhaps doing a small sample not having anything to do with the boat or having someone experienced help you out would be wise. Also lots of info on the internet about this. West Systems in particular has some great how to stuff.
As to your actual repair, I think you have two choices with the assumption that the outer Luran layer is NOT punctured and has returned to it's original curvature.
I would add that you should have fans and have a protective breathing mask on in addition to other safety gear as you will be working in an enclosed space! If it were me I would have someone assisting and available to help me out of the boat if I started getting dizzy or nauseous.
1) Reattach the broken heaved up pieces of foam to the Luran in their original locations (this assumes the Luran has recovered it's original shape). You might have to work up some temp bracing - wedges to hold the pieces in place while the PL3 sets. If you have to trim the broken edges of the inner FRP layer to make them fit it should be OK as part of this repair would be to add several new layers of FRP over the damaged area. If there are small voids between the broken pieces after they are stuck down you can decide if they are big enough to leave or perhaps use some of that expanding sealant foam you can get in a can. The expanding foam could get really messy and you would have to trim it off level and it introduces two types of foam for the FRP layer to stick to so I'm not overly confident that is a good idea for the potential gain. Once you are finished with the foam layer add several new layers of FRP (again read the link above as @BobbyFunn worked that all out).
2) Remove all of the damaged inner layers, place a new "core" layer and FRP the inside layer overlapping it onto the undamaged areas. Sounds simple but likely not Removing the inner layers wouldn't be too hard but you would have to be very careful NOT to score the Luran with something like a box knife or power tool. The new core layer would have to conform to the shape of the hull and be attached to the Luran. Perhaps some thin layers of the pink foam insulating board would bend enough, PL3 it to the Luran, wedge it in place, put another layer on etc. until you get a desired thickness. Note the inside of the hull doesn't need to look pretty when your done. The new foam areas wouldn't have to be exactly the same level as the original. As an alternative you could possibly heal the boat and use two part expanding foam to create the core. I've not worked with that material so again the thread linked above can provide some ideas.
As we say here "Your boat, Your choice"
Hope this helps!
Perhaps I should start with I think it's important that you have some understanding of what I meant about "sandwich" construction. The sandwich in our boats is made of three layers of material that on their own aren't particularly strong, however when they are attached to each other the new "single" material is very strong.
Your outer layer Luran also referred to as ACP due to the impact is no longer "attached" to the next layer; the foam. It has delaminated so the strength of the "sandwich" is compromised. The same would hold true for areas where the foam and FRP layers have separated. Your challenge will be to get the layers of the sandwich back in place and ATTACHED to each other.
In most boat construction the sandwich is usually a FRP outer layer, a core that might be wood like balsa or in newer boats some type of composite material and an inner FRP layer. Certain solvents such as acetone are commonly used during construction or repair as they work well and don't harm the material.
Hunter decided to use alternative materials for the outer layer and core, namely the Luran and foam as they knew the Luran was extremely resistant to puncture (a good characteristic to have in a small boat that would likely get banged around). The BIG downside of Luran is a lot of solvents and in particular acetone will destroy that material so you have to be very careful in what materials come in contact with it. The other strong characteristics of Luran is that it does NOT attach to other materials easily and will crack or snap off if scored.
I'm not sure if you have had a chance to read the lengthy thread I linked above but @BobbyFunn found that Loctite PL3 construction adhesive doesn't harm the Luran, will attach to it and is the same with the foam layer so is a good candidate for getting the Luran layer attached to the foam layer. It is also fairly inexpensive and a common construction adhesive so hopefully something you can find locally. PL3 is somewhat messy to work with so have a plan and wear disposable rubber gloves, lay down some sheet plastic etc to make cleanup easier
The inner FRP layer materials again should be locally available as the resin, hardener and fibreglass cloth are all pretty common items. There are lots of different "types" of resin, speed of hardener and weave of cloth but the basic idea is you measure out a quantity of resin, add the appropriate amount of hardener and mix the two together. You then have a limited time to wet the cloth before the liquid resin starts to harden. This "hardening" process produces heat and fumes so be careful!
It's not difficult but perhaps doing a small sample not having anything to do with the boat or having someone experienced help you out would be wise. Also lots of info on the internet about this. West Systems in particular has some great how to stuff. As to your actual repair, I think you have two choices with the assumption that the outer Luran layer is NOT punctured and has returned to it's original curvature.
I would add that you should have fans and have a protective breathing mask on in addition to other safety gear as you will be working in an enclosed space! If it were me I would have someone assisting and available to help me out of the boat if I started getting dizzy or nauseous.
1) Reattach the broken heaved up pieces of foam to the Luran in their original locations (this assumes the Luran has recovered it's original shape). You might have to work up some temp bracing - wedges to hold the pieces in place while the PL3 sets. If you have to trim the broken edges of the inner FRP layer to make them fit it should be OK as part of this repair would be to add several new layers of FRP over the damaged area. If there are small voids between the broken pieces after they are stuck down you can decide if they are big enough to leave or perhaps use some of that expanding sealant foam you can get in a can. The expanding foam could get really messy and you would have to trim it off level and it introduces two types of foam for the FRP layer to stick to so I'm not overly confident that is a good idea for the potential gain. Once you are finished with the foam layer add several new layers of FRP (again read the link above as @BobbyFunn worked that all out).
2) Remove all of the damaged inner layers, place a new "core" layer and FRP the inside layer overlapping it onto the undamaged areas. Sounds simple but likely not
Removing the inner layers wouldn't be too hard but you would have to be very careful NOT to score the Luran with something like a box knife or power tool. The new core layer would have to conform to the shape of the hull and be attached to the Luran. Perhaps some thin layers of the pink foam insulating board would bend enough, PL3 it to the Luran, wedge it in place, put another layer on etc. until you get a desired thickness. Note the inside of the hull doesn't need to look pretty when your done. The new foam areas wouldn't have to be exactly the same level as the original. As an alternative you could possibly heal the boat and use two part expanding foam to create the core. I've not worked with that material so again the thread linked above can provide some ideas.As we say here "Your boat, Your choice"
Hope this helps!
Before going any further, please take pictures of the boat hull from the outside so we can determine a good way to go. A frontal picture and then one from each side. In addition, advise of location as it will help to know if part or supplies can be shipped to you. I will ask @Hunter216 work with me but we need to know the exact extent of the damage and inside photos alone do not help without the others