Hull-Keel crack

Don S/V ILLusion · Sep 26, 2012

My take on this is there is no way anyone can make an intelligent judgment based on an internet description stating - the bilge looks okay. Even looking at the keel personally, visual observation would be useless.

You need to check the keel bolts, thoroughly inspect the separation and inspect to see if any hull damage exists as a result of water penetration or a previous impact (on the keel).

Stated differently, that's what a survey buys you. I understand you don;t want to incur the survey expense on a problem boat but there isn't a convenient way to differentiate. The only option you have is to walk based only on potential for a problem or get it surveyed.

xcyz · Sep 26, 2012

Don is soooo right.... Buy it after he pulls it for the season, inspect it then. You really don't have much left of the season anyways so you're not really missing out. Without the inspection or survey how are you going to obtain insurance anyways as on a boat of that age I would think one is needed.

sailaway78 · Sep 26, 2012

Let the current owner do it

Let the current owner stand the expense of pulling the boat, Then when it's on the hard, you can get a good look. If he balks, turn around and walk away. Hell, it's almost winter, and he wants to sell. Find out how bad he wants to get rid of it. If he don't sell it, he has the expense of pulling and winter storage.

fireman416 · Sep 27, 2012

Re: Let the current owner do it

A survey is a lot cheaper than repairing a bad keel ,and once you own the boat its your money that will have to fix it. Also as stated most insurance companies will require a recent survey before they will take on the boat.

kloudie1 · Sep 27, 2012

I agree.. could be really expensive.. but could be OK..
one thing to consider is to have the owner torque the keel bolts to specification.. This wiill remove any slack in the joint.. Ya want to be there when that happens so that the guy pulling the wrench can tell you if any are "soft" and are not coming up to torque.. Anything looking soft is reason to go somewhere else.. If all tighten well, then the crack can be easily sealed/faired and it should not re-appear.. That is a fine sailing boat with a good lead keel.. There are many available at great prices, so don't get hung up on this one.. Good Luck with it, Bill.

capta · Sep 27, 2012

In "the old days" we would have one person lay his palm flat across the keel/hull joint and another swing a 20# sledge at the keel. Any movement at the joint would indicate a problem.
Of course the boat needs to be out of the water and 2x4 or similar to protect the keel is imperative (a third person holding this, is nice). I've broken a number of keel bolts this way, but there is no uncertainty at that point.
The present owner is under no obligation to pay for hauling the boat for your survey, so I guess it is really a matter if he wants to sell or hide a problem, how far he will contribute.
If you do not get a survey, then it's your risk, no one else's.

RAD · Sep 27, 2012

I had a similar problem with my boat that developed a smile aft of the keel and although I don't have keel bolts this smile wasn't visible while on the hard due to the weight bearing down on it but when in the straps it was very visible, my thinking was the boat took a good hit on the bottom. I have since repaired it and so far so good after many years

rickbarr · Nov 12, 2012

I love the Sledge Method !! Reminds me of a Surveyor who comes to our yard he literally beats the living *@#$ out of every boat he surveys. He's famous for ripping out stantion bases. And he's absolutely right.

berner73 · Nov 12, 2012

rickbarr said:
I love the Sledge Method !! Reminds me of a Surveyor who comes to our yard he literally beats the living *@#$ out of every boat he surveys. He's famous for ripping out stantion bases. And he's absolutely right.

Pretty sure if a surveyor ripped out a stantion during the survey, they'd be paying to repair it. If every system was tested to failure, there wouldn't be much of a boat left to buy.

sailaway78 · Nov 13, 2012

Might also help

It would also help to do some research on the keel stub, and find out the construction on it. Some have a plywood cored stub, which could also be a major problem if this boat has it. I have sailed a Cherubini Hunter across the gulf, and they are really nice sailing boats. This is a very good choice, if the condition is good.

rickbarr · Nov 24, 2012

Tell that to someone who's gotten injured or ended up in dire situations due to poor boat maintenance. If a 65 year old surveyor can pull a stantion base out by putting a bit of weight to it. Then imagine how it would hold up it rough sea's with your whole body being hurled at it with force. I want my boat to be able to take a beating. Thankyou...

berner73 · Nov 25, 2012

rickbarr said:
If a 65 year old surveyor can pull a stantion base out by putting a bit of weight to it. Then imagine how it would hold up it rough sea's with your whole body being hurled at it with force. I want my boat to be able to take a beating. Thankyou...

That's a bit different than your original characterization. "... he literally beats the living *@#$ out of every boat he surveys". The contrast between the two statements is beyond reasonable hyperbole.

Chris Patterson · Nov 25, 2012

Hmm. Maybe I'm just in a foul mood today.....but I've thought about this particular "survey" a lot. I truly wish that a stanchion could put up with a whole lot of pressure, but....the reality is; I venture I could climb on any boat in the yard and start jerking on the stanchions until they fail. The surface contact area being what it is, in fiberglass as well, is just plain silly. Even an OSHA standard construction handrail only has to support 200 pounds. Yes, it's true. In my opinion, I think that is too light, but it is what it is. Without a science lesson in force factors, unless the stanchion is welded onto a steel deck, there's only so much pressure it can take.

And, if this "surveyor" climbed on MY boat, and started breaking things for his entertainment value, or showing what a bad man he perceives himself to be at 65 years of age; his chances of seeing a healthy 66 years of age would be %$#@*&$ slim..

rickbarr · Nov 25, 2012

Come on now !! You know a bloody soft deck from a stiff one and a weak station base is a sure sign of it. Also a good inspection of the hull to deck joint in the area wouldn't go amiss
as well. Think of the first boat you purchased (that's if it was a fixer upper) if your new to boat repair and haven't developed an eye for these things the only man on your side is the Surveyor. I'm tired of seeing peoples dreams shattered when they discover all the work they need to put into their boats because they didn't know what they were getting into. I work in a boat yard and make quotes on some of the repair jobs mostly fiberglass and it's heartbreaking telling some young couple "heh sorry I know you just spent 25,000 on your boat but your surveyor missed this ect...ect... gonna cost you another bla bla and so on... OK when I go to sell my boat maybe I'd kill the surveyor if he pulled my stantion out. Or maybe I'd be ashamed because I let my boat fall to the wayside.. We'll see when that day comes...

Terryviking · Dec 25, 2012

Re: Might also help

Nice N Easy said:
It would also help to do some research on the keel stub, and find out the construction on it. Some have a plywood cored stub, which could also be a major problem if this boat has it. I have sailed a Cherubini Hunter across the gulf, and they are really nice sailing boats. This is a very good choice, if the condition is good.

Long time since this was posted, but how to tell of hull is all fiberglass or wood core? Would the screws into the hull be visible?

Also, what's the quickest way to research these details on a hunter 27?