Hull issues

PSR

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Sep 17, 2013
117
Catalina 27 4743 MB Yacht Harbor, Richmond CA
I am the latest owner of my C27, which became mine in September. She's fun to sail, her Universal 5411 runs like a top, and I am sure many of the issues I aim to deal with are common. The hull issues I'm goin gto describe here may not be so common, but I don't know.

About 10 days ago she was hauled out and taken to a shop for some work on the deck. Upon hauling, blisters were apparent below the waterline. My very knowledgeable friend who owns the shop suggested we clean the fairly recent bottom paint from the hull and do a thorough reconditioning of the hull while we had the opportunity. As the gel coat was exposed, there were numerous small bumps revealed, many of which showed a crack in the gel coat like this:



Very few of these were wet, and they did not appear as blisters. They were completely hidden by bottom paint. The approach has been to grind them out, and tonight, my poor boat looks like she has the measles/hives/chicken pox all at once:



A high proportion of these spots revealed small voids in the glass beneath the gel coat. The glass fiber was not impregnated with resin. A very clear example of one is this, in which you can see the dry glass delaminating from the next layer:



Grinding into the hull revealed pretty large and extensive pitting, as shown here:



What was really only done to take advantage of an opportunity while she was in a good shop has developed into a major undertaking, starting with filling the ground out pits (epoxy + shredded glass or glass filler) and some priming of the keel with barrier coat (Interlock); a lot of sanding and fairing; new gel coat; followed by complete barrier coat; and finally the new bottom paint. The reconstruction starts tomorrow.

Her hull has lasted more than 30 years, so she was built adequately despite the apparent poor resin work. Fixing her is a predictably unexpected serious expense, but I'm going with the whole thing so she's ready for me for the rest of my days (a C27 is a fine single-hander--really much more than an "entry boat" as they are often called in ads). I suppose if I'd had her surveyed, I might have known about the extent of the little voids in the hull, but the price was so low, the cost of a survey seemed exorbitant; that may have been a mistake in retrospect. My friends in the shop think a surveyor would have totaled her, and she might have cost half as much in that case.

Frankly, last week was a bit depressing as the extent of the problem surfaced (literally), but I am happy now to have reached the bottom and am looking forward to seeing the reconstruction start tomorrow.

Why am I showing this and writing about it? Mainly to survey forum members to find out if any of you have dealt with such extensive hull surface issues. Do I have the only Catalina from the time with this much of an issue with such "defects"? If you have stripped your hull down this way, have you found as much to fix?

Best to all; hope tomorrow's a fine sailing day for you!!
 

azguy

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Aug 23, 2012
337
Catalina 22 Lake Pleasant
As a new boat owner I have no experience with things like this, but what's done is done and you obviously love the boat so take some satisfaction in that you are saving the old girl and you wont have to worry or deal with this again for many years.

While not nearly the same I had a shop drop the mast on my C22 to install some lazy jacks. I was there that day and we spotted that the halyards were starting to "fuzz up" and while they may have lasted years we decided to replace those, then the mainsheet, then the topping lift and finally all the running rigging :D Was it more than I wanted to spend or had planned to, for sure. Will it make me smile when I take her out on the 1st sail, yes !!
 

PSR

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Sep 17, 2013
117
Catalina 27 4743 MB Yacht Harbor, Richmond CA
As a new boat owner I have no experience with things like this, but what's done is done and you obviously love the boat so take some satisfaction in that you are saving the old girl and you wont have to worry or deal with this again for many years.
THanks for the note AZ. I'm happy with my boat and with taking care of her. Today we filled the sore spots with epoxy + shredded gl
 

jrowan

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Mar 5, 2011
1,294
O'Day 35 Severn River, Mobjack Bay, Va.
From your pics & what you describe the areas that you are grinding out sound like previous blister pock marks that were previously & inadequately filled & sanded in a previous attempt to repair. A LOT of 70's & early 80's boats get blister over time, as water migrates into & past the gel coat, which can & will be over zealously sanded off during one too many bottom jobs. I have also seen where barnacles, which are tough S.O.B.'s will bite & bond so hard to a hull, that scraping them off, then requires grinding the shell down to past the gel coat to get 'em off. Once the gel coat has been penetrated there's nothing to stop water migration into the inner fiberglass & matt.
Google "Valiant 40 blisters" of which they are famous for & it might make you feel better. Sailors pay big bucks for a blue water Valiant 40, only to find that they have to spend 10 grand to grind out, patch & re-fair & bottom coat thousands of blisters. Valiant & some other boat builders who used Uniflite built hulls with a flame retardant chemicals in the later 70's that caused massive numbers of silver dollar size blisters to form below & above the water line. At least by the time you fair those blisters of your & apply a barrier coat & bottom paint they will be hidden from view & just a bad memory. But even a serious case of blistering or even voids in resin have never caused any of these sailboats to sink, as far as I know of. Indeed, I tend to like the late 70's & early 80's fiberglass hull designs & hand built layup, as the builders didn't quite know how much glass to add, & they tend to be overbuilt then underbuilt.
Now days, I think its a competition to see just how thin can they get away with making hull & decks in an effort to make boats comparatively "light weight", but its really just being a cheap way to save a buck.
 

azguy

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Aug 23, 2012
337
Catalina 22 Lake Pleasant
BTW, I love C27's and hope to own one some day, beautiful lines. Post some additional pictures of her, especially the inside.....
 

PSR

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Sep 17, 2013
117
Catalina 27 4743 MB Yacht Harbor, Richmond CA
BTW, I love C27's and hope to own one some day, beautiful lines. Post some additional pictures of her, especially the inside.....
Thanks for the replies. You'll probably see my latest post (Ask a Catalina owner forum), where I have repeated some of this, but with the latest photo of the new gel coat. Here it is again (it makes me happy...):



While we've been doing the repair, I've been wondering how often owners strip down to the gel coat below the waterline. How do you do this without damaging the gel coat? My boat did not have a thick layer of bottom paint, even though she's 32 years old. If the bottom has to be repainted every two years, there should have been a lot of paint unless she's been stripped before.

AZGUY--Thanks for asking for more pix. I've put up a gallery on Google
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
It looks like there was no barrier coat applied? That would explain the blisters if true.
 

PSR

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Sep 17, 2013
117
Catalina 27 4743 MB Yacht Harbor, Richmond CA
There was no original barrier coat, and as far as I know, barrier coat was not applied over gel coat on hulls of this age, or even more recently--but I don't know a lot about this. There will be barrier coat over the gel coat when this project is finished.
 

PSR

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Sep 17, 2013
117
Catalina 27 4743 MB Yacht Harbor, Richmond CA
My Catalina 27 Handbook has a page dated 1985 and right at the front of the book warning that "barrier coat must be applied" before bottom paint to protect against blistering in the gel coat. I guess the dealer who delivered the boat to a new owner should have applied the barrier coat, but maybe nobody had thought of that in 1981. How long have barrier coats been applied?
 

TLW

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Jan 15, 2013
271
Oday 31 Whitehall, MI
Barrier coats were becoming common in the early 80s as the industry was just starting to sort out the blistering problem. I wouldn't blame the original dealer. Barrier coats were certainly an OPTION, but at additional cost to the buyer.

I removed my 30 year old barrier coat last Summer and the hull (gelcoat) was perfect underneath. I recoated with Interprotect barrier coat and expect to replace it again in the year 2044 on my 98th birthday. I could use some help sanding if your not busy then.

BTW: your Catalina looks great. Get a barrier on there and forget about it.
 
Sep 3, 2012
31
Catalina 30 Tampa
This past summer I took a number of pictures that look almost identical to yours, and had a very similar story. No survey at purchase (less than a year earlier). Took her in for a standard bottom job, and wound up with sandblasting, grinding, epoxy/glass filling, a couple of coats of barrier then a couple of bottom paint. When I first saw her with the chicken pox, it was depressing. And the bill.... ouch! But she looks great now.

So I know your pain, and also your joy. You have a fine looking boat there.

Happy sailing!
 
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PSR

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Sep 17, 2013
117
Catalina 27 4743 MB Yacht Harbor, Richmond CA
I may have posted this photo on the general ask-an-owner forum, where I started a similar thread some time ago. With apologies for double-posting, here's how the hull looks now (thumbnail below) with 4 coats of Interlock 2000 and new stripes color matched to the sunbrella burgundy fabric on deck. The final bottom paint will be Interlux Shark White"....

She's still in the shop, with the Universal 5411 out on a bench, about ready to be reassembled and installed on new mounts, with newer Hurth transmission, new shaft & coupling, "drip-less" shaft seal, and new cutlass bearing. It's been an adventure, confirming the rule of thumb that restoring an old boat to top condition costs about $1,000 per foot. Re-launching is approaching, but not til she has new stanchions, new mast & engine wiring, new engine panel, and a variety of other upgrades.

Spring is about here, and sailing not too far over the horizon.... I aim to be quite safe on the water in whatever winds prevail, after moving to Vallejo (Glen Cove Marina), to have access to San Pablo and SF bays.

Cheers!
 

Attachments

Feb 26, 2008
603
Catalina 30 Marathon, FL
Consider using Vetus mounts when you reinstall the 5411 instead of the stock Universal mounts. There are a lot of posts on this forum about the Vetus mounts. The difference in smoothing out engine vibration is nothing short of amazing. We're on the third year with them in our C30.

The funny thing is once you're on the water all those boat $$ spent won't matter a bit. :D
 

PSR

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Sep 17, 2013
117
Catalina 27 4743 MB Yacht Harbor, Richmond CA
Consider using Vetus mounts when you reinstall the 5411 instead of the stock Universal mounts. There are a lot of posts on this forum about the Vetus mounts. The difference in smoothing out engine vibration is nothing short of amazing. We're on the third year with them in our C30.

The funny thing is once you're on the water all those boat $$ spent won't matter a bit. :D

Thanks for the recommendation Jim. When you wrote, we had reinstalled the engine, with new motor mounts that are the same as the originals. I checked out the Vetus mounts. Although I haven't spared (been spared) expense for all this, the price for the Vetus mounts probably would have stopped me.

There are before and after photos of the transmission/shaft linkage attached. You can just barely see the old mount in the top left of that ugly mess before.

Still not launched. I tore up my shoulder early last week & have to let some of the pain subside before I can work again.

Peter
 

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jrowan

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Mar 5, 2011
1,294
O'Day 35 Severn River, Mobjack Bay, Va.
Peter,

That transmission looks great. I wished mine looked that good. Mine also looks like
your before picture. But those Hurth transmission are tough sons of guns.
 

PSR

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Sep 17, 2013
117
Catalina 27 4743 MB Yacht Harbor, Richmond CA
Peter,

That transmission looks great. I wished mine looked that good. Mine also looks like
your before picture. But those Hurth transmission are tough sons of guns.
Thanks for the note JR. The drive train does look pretty now, and it seems to work even better, best I have been able to tell until she's back in the water. I wish the mechanics could do as well rebuilding ME, but then I am old enough to be the transmission's father and then some.... Probably it would be asking too much of the repair guys to get me cleaned up and working smoothly.
 

Ajay73

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Jun 11, 2011
253
Catalina 1980 C27 Meinke Marina on Lake Erie
The 5411's are a really good engine. I have one in my 1980 C27 and it really runs good. Starts right up with no problem. Just the right size for a C27.