How to use the head?!

JonnyQuest · Jun 25, 2013

Johnnie Walker Black said:
FYI.

Everybody uses fresh water connected to their toilette.
When is the last time you pumped raw water to flush your business at home, or at a restaurant?
There are many perfectly safe ways to plumb your toilette with your fresh water.
T

I didn't know that. My oday 27 is still plumbed to raw water only (1975 model). It sure can stink more than anyone's business left behind!

i am cursed with a 6 gallon holding tank (and kids who think marine toilets are a lot of fun!). After considering an upsized holding tank and routine changeout of lines and joker valve etc, I was going to chuck it all and get a "composting toilet" (actually a misnomer). Other projects got in the way this year but I hope to do that one next year. Decided on the C-Head.

JonnyQuest · Jun 25, 2013

Island Packet, very nice! Start a thread on showing us your new digs, would love to see. I think IPs are great looking classic looking boats.

Stu Jackson · Jun 25, 2013

Johnnie Walker Black said:
FYI.

1. Everybody uses fresh water connected to their toilette.
2. When is the last time you pumped raw water to flush your business at home, or at a restaurant?
3. There are many perfectly safe ways to plumb your toilette with your fresh water.

1. Not in most boats I am aware of.

2. Not at home, but in my boat.

3. Please explain that one, 'cuz I haven't heard of one for standard manual heads.

Chris Patterson · Jun 26, 2013

One key difference would be that a home toilet can not build any pressure, (although I've pressurized the top bowl a few times without any permanent damage, at least not to the toilet), and so gravity flushed commodes have little opportunity to "back flush" anything back up into the system. Even with a valve, or check valve in the intake line is too big of a chance. One thimble full that can conceivably travel back up the wrong way would contaminate the entire water supply, that would demand a helluva cleaning regiment to un-contaminate the system. Valves fail. There's a million threads now of how many has, and that one would be just as bad as any. It is a mechanical entity, manufactured by man; and it WILL fail. You get to guess when.
I don't even drink water off of the boat when local, and I still wouldn't take that chance. The filthiest apparatus on the whole boat, tied into the fresh water supply. Lemme think on that one for a minute...
Keep the tank pumped out. It doesn't take but a moment. And hell, three miles ain't that far out. Go outside and turn on the macerator pump, and keep flushing it out with water, and keep the foul tankage gone.
I mean really, how much trouble is it to take a coffee cup full of water, and pour it down the bowl to keep a drop of fresh in it?
I have seen them where it is plumbed out of the gray water side, like from the vanity sink, and if I'm not mistaken, Stu has done his that way. Great plan. Decent water in, with no chance of it "back-flowing" into the fresh water.
There are probably as many ideas on how to do this, as there are people posting on this board. But plumbing a head from the fresh water tank is a poor idea on several levels, and the chances are just not worth it.

py26129 · Jun 26, 2013

emergpa1 said:
Hi matt, it seems that no matter how much i pump the deed stays in. that was what was confusing us was the idea that if we pumped long enough, the contents would flush. but it never would. So, today i just decided to just pump a bit of water in, then turn to dry and pump everything out. that seems to be working pretty good so far. As you guys have said, with urine, we just pump dry.

Hull number31146I687

All the info is great! I like the idea of using the shower/sink faucet to give the final rinse. Good idea. teaching people the right way is a challenge, and you can never repeat things too often.

I will take all these instructions and put them to good use.

We are riding thunderstorms out in Brunswick right now. So stu, it is a good time for me to check out those links. And Ill check out the book mentioned.

Thanks for the help.

I am not sure why the deed would stay in the bowl but I woudl start by replacing the joker valve. ours was in pretty sorry shape when we got our boat. do no think my holding tank installation would work on your boat as I believe yourswas the water tank located under the v-berth. Mine is an older model with the water tanks under the settees in the salon.
There is another IP31 out there that has a composting head instlled. If you do a search in the forums at www.iphomepot.com, you should be able to find the thread.

We're riding out thunderstorms in Montreal as well. We were at anchor on Monday and had gusts to 37 kts. Not much lightning, thank god.

Cheers

Matt

captcoho · Jun 26, 2013

woodster said:
this not a good idea at all ...by having the fresh water connected to the head you run a risk of contaminating your fresh water supply ...not good at all....even if you used a valve to isolate it would not be good

regards

woody

Never suggested " connecting (or plumbing ) " anything together...........
Reread the post, TAKE THE FAUCET, AND RINSE.

Gunni · Jun 26, 2013

Neither one of my heads are plumbed to freshwater, never will be. Both use raw water, and both are the much maligned Jabsco twist'n'lock types. If you know how to manage a marine head, you will have no odor, and even the Jabsco works like a charm. Raw water that has been sitting in your head pump hoses will have an odor, but once you pump that out, the water doesn't have a chance to go anaerobic (sulfide).

The twist and lock pump is inexpensive and easy to replace as a single piece, Amazon will get you one for $50-$70, do so if you are having problems. There are two very key parts, the well known choker (joker)valve, and the flap valve. both need to be in good order for the head to work right. Start with a good setup, properly maintain it, and you will have years of trouble free service. Mismanage it, and your head will constantly stink and malfunction. Your crew will ridicule the boat

And yes, the head will pump out in the wet flush mode. If it does not, you need to rebuild your pump, or clear a clog. The most common problem I see in marine heads is the use of caustic, or oxidizer cleaners - these things quickly destroy your pump valves and kill your tank bacteria, leading to head that backflows and a smelly tank. Treat your system like a living creature.

Regarding guests - we provide a basic instruction and then follow them around to give the head a tuneup. Usually an additional water flush. We also carry the Urinator - a clorox bottle with a hole in one side suitable for both genders, and a long cord tied to the handle. After use we give it a good keel-hauling and hang it to dry. Credit to Don Street for that.

woodster · Jun 26, 2013

captcoho said:
Never suggested " connecting (or plumbing ) " anything together...........
Reread the post, TAKE THE FAUCET, AND RINSE.

if read my post number 18 you will see i never quoted you..... so i suggest you READ MY POST AGAIN ...... as for using the shower faucet to rinse with that is a very good idea....

fraternally yours

regards

woody

Stu Jackson · Jun 26, 2013

woodster said:
..... as for using the shower faucet to rinse with that is a very good idea....

Actually, Peggie says it's not a good idea, IIRC, it means the pump isn't getting lubricated with the intake water.

Might want to read the links I provided where she discusses it.

That's why T-eeing in the sink drain is such a good idea.

LuzSD · Jun 26, 2013

We also carry the Urinator - a clorox bottle with a hole in one side suitable for both genders, and a long cord tied to the handle. After use we give it a good keel-hauling and hang it to dry.

What the heck??? why???

As I have been reading this entire thread I can feel Peggy and her frustration and exasperation..... sigh........

LuzSD · Jun 26, 2013

Stu Jackson said:
Actually, Peggie says it's not a good idea, IIRC, it means the pump isn't getting lubricated with the intake water.

Might want to read the links I provided where she discusses it.

That's why T-eeing in the sink drain is such a good idea.

I'm with Stu, we have ours T'd to our sink drain as well and it works just great.

I'm amazed how often the discussion of using fresh water (as in T-eeing to sink drain) begins little rants about not contaminating the fresh water system.... Stu, you do a great job of regularly directing people to previous threads on such subjects. You should have been a librarian!!!

woodster · Jun 26, 2013

Stu Jackson said:
Actually, Peggie says it's not a good idea, IIRC, it means the pump isn't getting lubricated with the intake water.

Might want to read the links I provided where she discusses it.

That's why T-eeing in the sink drain is such a good idea.

now that i think back on this subject Stu you are correct about the rinsing with the bowl only Peggie did say that some time back ...but like you and LuzSd i also have my water intake conected to the head drain...that way i can flush fresh water through the system or use sea water as well...

regards

woody

LuzSD · Jun 26, 2013

woodster said:
now that i think back on this subject Stu you are correct about the rinsing with the bowl only Peggie did say that some time back ...but like you and LuzSd i also have my water intake conected to the head drain...that way i can flush fresh water through the system or use sea water as well...

regards

woody

yes Woody, that is the key and wonderful thing about this system. If you are docked and have no problem replenishing fresh water, use it all you like. If moored or traveling for any length of time, use seawater. Options! its all about options and understanding what makes the holding tank system work.

Stu Jackson · Jun 26, 2013

Links and stuff

LuzSD said:
IStu, you do a great job of regularly directing people to previous threads on such subjects. You should have been a librarian!!!

I created those "101 Topics" on our C34 website, 'cuz I was tired of retyping stuff!

Thanks, Luz. One of our contributors, who posts a lot, has written a lot (and is, unfortunately for him, a hunt-and-peck typist), does get frustrated at times. He once mentioned to me "We can write it, but we can't make 'em read it!" I feel that way sometimes, 'cuz the links answer the question, but it seems many just don't bother. Oh well...

Johnnie Walker Black · Jun 26, 2013

I guess I didn't mean to use the word 'plummed'.

But we have the T to the sink in the head type set up and I suppose I was thinking of other situations where there would be a vacuum break between the supply side and the sewage?
Not correct stu? Or are you hung up on the word 'plummed'

How to use the head?!

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