How to start a C27 Atomic 4

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Mar 1, 2013
5
catalina 27 Key Largo
I've just acquired a '79 C27 which I will be taking ownership of this Wednesday. The boat has an inboard Atomic 4. As far as I can tell, everything about the boat is pretty much stock. This is the fourth sailboat we've owned but the first one with an inboard.

The question I have is what is the starting procedure for this motor?

I've been doing a lot of reading online so I know I need to run the blower for at least 5 min, and the transmission needs to be in neutral. But, the postings imply that there are some cooling lines that need to be opened as well.

I should also say that I bought this boat online, so I haven't been on the boat yet, all I've seen are pictures. The boat has been running regularly up until this past October and has been sitting at the PO's dock since then. The PO won't be around when I come to get it, so any help and advice is appreciated.
 

dj2210

.
Feb 4, 2012
337
Catalina 30 Watts Bar
Wow -buying a boat without seeing it. Basically open the seacock next to the engine to allow water to flow, turn key on, push start. That's providing the fuel line valve is open, battery charged, etc
 

jrowan

.
Mar 5, 2011
1,294
O'Day 35 Severn River, Mobjack Bay, Va.
As far as the Atomic 4 search threads on this site, there are many of them that will tell you more then you need to know. Moyer Marine website is dedicated to Atomic engines. The most important step in the starting process is to open up the seacock for the cooling system to function, or the engine will quickly overheat. Follow the cooling hose down from the engine to the thru hull to where it attaches to the hull, & make sure it is open. Always check the stern transom discharge after starting the engine, to make sure that it is discharging cooling water to verify that it is flowing correctly.

I'm just curious how much you paid for a sailboat online? I can't imagine buying a boat without seeing it in person or inspecting it first hand. Aren't you concerned about what hidden problems could be waiting for you when buying a 34 year old boat? I would also be suspicious that the current owner won't even meet you when you take passession of it. Wow. Do yourself a favor & have a qualified marine mechanic or surveyor look the boat over before you sail her away. Good luck.
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
One wants to be very careful not to crank and crank and crank on an A4 with the raw water intake open. You run the risk of ingesting water into the cylinders.

I am still waiting to run my A4 in the water, but my plan will be something like this:

Assuming there is water in the raw water pump, (for pump lubrication and cooling) I plan to leave the raw water intake CLOSED until I can get the motor to start and run. If the boat has been sitting a while this might take a little bit of cranking. Once I feel comfortable that the motor will start with minimal cranking, I will open the raw water intake. Then start the motor and let it run.

After parking the boat, close the raw water intake, as well as all the other seacocks.

Once you become familiar with your motor, you will find a routine that fits your situation. My hunch is that subsequent use will find the motor starting easier with a known amount of cranking. You might eventually find that you can start the motor and get it running and THEN go open the raw water seacock.

Bottom-line You don't want to hydro-lock your motor... The A4 in a C27 has a potential to do this....
 
Mar 1, 2013
5
catalina 27 Key Largo
Thanks for the rapid response and helpful posts. That does help clear up some of my questions.

To answer some of the concerns about buying this boat, let me give you a few details. This was a boat donated to a charity but there was a survey published for the boat and extensive pictures taken just a few weeks ago. The boat was valued by the surveyor at $14,000. I talked with the PO who assured me that the boat was in very good condition and that he has been using it regularly up until this past October. The reason he had donated it was that had downsized to a trailerable, and that he was looking for the tax write-off for this boat. The charity has also guaranteed that the boat is in good condition. The PO won't be there just because of a conflict in our two schedules, he will be there two days later if I had wanted to wait. The bottom line is that I got the boat for $2,800. At that price, based on the pictures and other reassurances, I didn't think it was a big risk. I'll post pictures next week and see if I was right.


One wants to be very careful not to crank and crank and crank on an A4 with the raw water intake open. You run the risk of ingesting water into the cylinders.

I am still waiting to run my A4 in the water, but my plan will be something like this:

Assuming there is water in the raw water pump, (for pump lubrication and cooling) I plan to leave the raw water intake CLOSED until I can get the motor to start and run. If the boat has been sitting a while this might take a little bit of cranking. Once I feel comfortable that the motor will start with minimal cranking, I will open the raw water intake. Then start the motor and let it run.

After parking the boat, close the raw water intake, as well as all the other seacocks.

Once you become familiar with your motor, you will find a routine that fits your situation. My hunch is that subsequent use will find the motor starting easier with a known amount of cranking. You might eventually find that you can start the motor and get it running and THEN go open the raw water seacock.

Bottom-line You don't want to hydro-lock your motor... The A4 in a C27 has a potential to do this....
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
I hope you either got it cheap, or had someone inspect it beforehand. You could get a real pig in a poke buying something that way.

<edit> In the words of Rosanne Rosannadana, Nevermind

If you open the sea cocks, make sure you keep an aye on things that you dont have a leak that fills the boat. I would also make sure to close them before leaving the boat.

Here is what I would do in this situation. I learned a long time ago not to take anyone's word for anything, and if I already bought it, I woudlnt want to do any more harm by overlooking something critical. I would first find a manual, before I did anything, and have it in my hand when I went to the boat. First I would look everything over, making sure it all looks operable, especially condition of hoses... Then check the oil. I wouldnt care if it was black so much as that it was full (and not over filled) and not milky. Milky means water in the oil. I would pull the spark plugs if for no other reason than just to see their condition. Primarily I would look for rust or any signs of water. Now I would try to turn it BY HAND. Turn it at least two turns. Check the transmission oil level. Now I would put the plugs back in and go about trying to start it. First its going to need batteries that will turn it over, so thats next. Next it needs fuel, youll have to find the shut off and open it, watching for leaks. Now open the sea cocks, again watching for leaks. Now walk through it again. Engine oil? Transmission oil? Battery power? Fuel? water? Blower on? Clear? It will likely need some choke, reading the manual will help but I would just give it a whirl and watch it. Once it starts check oil pressure and watch it carefully for cooling.

Once its ran a while I would change the oil and filter, plugs if you didnt like how they looked, and then go about playing with the new toy.
 
Mar 1, 2013
5
catalina 27 Key Largo
@rowan: I did discover the Moyer site and should be receiving their manual today.

@philwsailz: I've been following your posts, which are terrific and inspiring.
 

Mikem

.
Dec 20, 2009
820
Hunter 466 Bremerton
I had an Atomic 4 in a 1977 Columbia 8.7. That engine ran as quiet as a flashlight. Maybe check the impeller prior to use...don't need bits of rubber running through the cooling system. Good luck and have fun.
 

dj2210

.
Feb 4, 2012
337
Catalina 30 Watts Bar
When i bought my C27 the A4 hadn't been run in months. I had a "service guy" check the engine over. He did a compression check and found it ok with one cylinder being a little low but assured me the engine was in good condition. When I took ownership and tried to start the engine it wouldn't start. Ended up replacing the carburetor and giving it a tune up, new points etc. What a bear to work on due to access. When it ran, it ran good. Come to find out later that the service guy never started it.
 
Mar 1, 2013
5
catalina 27 Key Largo
I'm thinking that I may need to do a quick tuneup when I get to it. Are the tuneup parts available at a typical local West Marine? Does anyone know if this vintage A4 would be a Delco or the Prestolite distributor?
 
Jun 25, 2012
942
hunter 356 Kemah,the Republic of Texas
Thanks for the rapid response and helpful posts. That does help clear up some of my questions.

To answer some of the concerns about buying this boat, let me give you a few details. This was a boat donated to a charity but there was a survey published for the boat and extensive pictures taken just a few weeks ago. The boat was valued by the surveyor at $14,000. I talked with the PO who assured me that the boat was in very good condition and that he has been using it regularly up until this past October. The reason he had donated it was that had downsized to a trailerable, and that he was looking for the tax write-off for this boat. The charity has also guaranteed that the boat is in good condition. The PO won't be there just because of a conflict in our two schedules, he will be there two days later if I had wanted to wait. The bottom line is that I got the boat for $2,800. At that price, based on the pictures and other reassurances, I didn't think it was a big risk. I'll post pictures next week and see if I was right.
Plus you just donated 2800 bucks to charity , so you get your right off too... Check was made out straight to charity Right?? I would not write anything about boat on check!
 
Aug 9, 2011
35
Pearson 30 Chicago
Probably a Delco distributor, tho first make sure the PO didn't install a pointless CD ignition.
Moyer and most NAPA auto parts have the caps, rotors, points, plugs, and wires.
 
Jan 22, 2008
880
Fed up w/ personal attacks I'm done with SBO
gagabriele,
I noticed you joined the Moyer forum, good move. Following the advice over there virtually guarantees you'll have a smooth running, easy starting reliable engine.

One thing missing in all the replies here is you need the choke fully closed for a cold start. Be prepared to open it within seconds after she fires.

Fuel quality comes to mind. If she's been sitting for a while chances are you'll be dealing with fuel contamination. I recommend an aggressive approach by emptying and replacing all fuel and replace the fuel filter. Also, I'm 99% certain your distributor is a Delco. When the C-27 was introduced Atomic 4 engines were only available in the late model configuration which included the Delco.
Probably a Delco distributor, tho first make sure the PO didn't install a pointless CD ignition.
Please elaborate on your concern. Electronic ignition is a widely accepted and preferred improvement. I have it on mine and it has been rock solid for years, smooth running and eliminates points issues, replacement and adjustment.
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
Hmmm. When I was young and cars had points, you seldom saw them on the side of the road, and if you diid, you could generally get them running with a screw driver and a pair or pliers. Maybe not "perfectly", always, but they could usually be made to get you home, or where ever you were going. Enter the world of electric ignition. Now when they quit, its parts replacement time. If you dont have the part along with, then what? Wait for a tow? Paddle? Push? Thumb a ride? And in the off chance you could find a parts store, are they open on Sunday? Would they have the part?

If I am out in the middle of the lake on a nice sunny Sunday afternoon, and need the motor, I would far and away rather have a points ignition system I could nuture back to life and save the day. I would rather have a diesel, but if its gas, give me points.

As far as gasoline goes, im probably old skool (and cheap) on that too. I would smell it and see if it will run on it. The oil is going to need changing, I would rather burn the old gas through the engine while I tune it up and check it out, then change the oil while its hot after a long run, fill it with fresh, new filters, yada yada yada.
 
Jan 22, 2008
880
Fed up w/ personal attacks I'm done with SBO
The Atomic 4 electronic ignition upgrade includes a complete new internal distributor mounting plate. We all keep our old points/condenser pre-mounted and pre-adjusted on the original plate as on board spares. In the event of an EI failure it's 2 screws and 1 wire and we're back in the game. I should say though it is exceedingly rare to hear of an EI failure. I can't remember the last time it was even mentioned on the Moyer forum.

One thing that needs scrutiny in upgrading to EI is the coil. We have learned that the internal resistance of the coil or coil+ballast resistor combination has to meet a certain value. Factors in the formula are alternator output and system wiring voltage drop so the resistance varies slightly from boat to boat. The formula is available on the Moyer forum as well as an Excel calculator for the math-challenged. A safe generic resistance value is 4Ω.
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
The Atomic 4 electronic ignition upgrade includes a complete new internal distributor mounting plate. We all keep our old points/condenser pre-mounted and pre-adjusted on the original plate as on board spares.
Redundancy is hard to appreciate, until you need it.
 
Mar 1, 2013
5
catalina 27 Key Largo
Well, I mentioned below that I had acquired my '79 C27 in a charity auction sight unseen for $2,800 and that I was going to pick it up last Wednesday. I gave a little background below on the purchase so I thought I'd followup with my promise to report back on what I found.

Let's start with that $14,000 value put on it by the surveyor; well he/she was a bit optimistic. It's a long way from $14,000, the wrong way. Also, the PO had been using it regularly but the reason he was getting rid of it was because of some engine problems. More on that later.

So, our first encounter was kind of like a blind date where your buddy has convinced you that the date may be someone gorgeous and he/she turns out be someone quite plan. In this case, we realized as soon as we got to the boat that we had bought a 30+ year old sailboat, not a boat from the boat show. We didn't expect a boat show boat, but we were a bit deflated, probably due to our own excitement about owning a sailboat again. Some things we noticed right away, the teak had all been painted with what looked like Olympus deck stain. It matched the dock! And, not just the exterior teak; all the teak inside and out. The cushions looked like the originals, and there was no marine head, just an empty room. And the boat had been painted as well, but that looked like it was done by hand with not a lot of prep, and I'm sure it wasn't Awlgrip. Of course, we knew the engine didn't run, we just weren't sure why yet. But, my wife, god bless her, was still upbeat. "Hey, it only cost $2,800. It's not like we spent a fortune."

But, that's really all the bad stuff. The good stuff is that all the standing rigging was recently replaced, and everywhere else we looked we saw a very solid boat; just in need of a little TLC. At a distance, she looked pretty good; up close, not so nice. But don't we all!!

To make a long story a little shorter, we got it to our dock. Eventually determined that the Atomic 4 has one stuck valve that we're working to free, and the engine does run on 3 cyls, actually not too badly. The sails are at the end of their life and the cushions are past theirs, but other than that, there's no major issues I can find. The rudder is a little sloppy but that can be easily fixed and the rudder and prop shaft packing glands need to be replaced. Thru-hulls are still strong but the originals and I will replace those. And, of course, it's a C27, the boat I've always wanted since my C22 of many years ago.

I've posted a couple of pictures below. I'll have some questions about things to do on this boat, but we have time and this looks like a solid start of a great project boat. By the end of the week, our blind date wasn't as gorgeous as we might have imagined but it turned out to be someone we would like to spend time with. And, I'm starting to like the maintenance free teak as well.

Thanks to all for your help on my original question.



Thanks for the rapid response and helpful posts. That does help clear up some of my questions.

To answer some of the concerns about buying this boat, let me give you a few details. This was a boat donated to a charity but there was a survey published for the boat and extensive pictures taken just a few weeks ago. The boat was valued by the surveyor at $14,000. I talked with the PO who assured me that the boat was in very good condition and that he has been using it regularly up until this past October. The reason he had donated it was that had downsized to a trailerable, and that he was looking for the tax write-off for this boat. The charity has also guaranteed that the boat is in good condition. The PO won't be there just because of a conflict in our two schedules, he will be there two days later if I had wanted to wait. The bottom line is that I got the boat for $2,800. At that price, based on the pictures and other reassurances, I didn't think it was a big risk. I'll post pictures next week and see if I was right.
 

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May 18, 2010
543
Oday 27 Gulfport, MS
GaGabriele,

You're a brave man! But then it sounds similar to a lot of older boats that are still serviceable albeit a bit long in the tooth.

Electronic Ignition is a good upgrade to the A4 now that you have it running and are working on it. Ditto what others said about fuel condition, can really baffle the learning process.

Moyer has a print manual and also has DVDs on how to maintain the engine if you are self teaching.

Congrats and enjoy your new toy.

JQ

PS. Keep us posted on the progress.
 
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