How to Set a Genoa Sail Car

Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
1,197
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
*here* *here* bentwing40.....
Do you have telltales on the luff of your jib/genoa? Get 3 sets up the luff. You want them breaking at the same time for proper twist in the headsail. cars back tightens the foot more, leech less. Car forward does the opposite.
 
Oct 28, 2008
24
Catalina 320 Lake Texoma
Thanks "Apex", and yes, I have tattletales on the "luff" of both the jib and the main. I don't pay that much attention to the leech tattletales on the main anymore as I have gotten old and lazy and if the "belly" of the sail is working the leech will generally fall in step. Put a set of tattletales on your main at about the 35% point and make em work. Cheers! And thank for the demotion.
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
You must be puzzled every time a balsa wood glider flies, with wings as flat as a board generating enough lift that they fly pretty well! Paper planes do the same! Newton explains it. The breeze leaving a trimmed sail's leach IS deflected, moving in a different direction than the wind hitting the luff.
Not really that confusing at all. If you place your balsa wood glider on a table in front of a fan so its wings feel full effect of the breeze. ..... will it lift and fly towards the fan? Of course not.

Gliders need the help of gravity and thermals, plus a little mechanical push to get moving....such as a catapult or your throwing arm.
You cannot sail a boat upwind without help from hull, keel and rudder. These underwater foils provide a counteracting lift to that of the sail.
 
May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
*here* *here* bentwing40.....
Do you have telltales on the luff of your jib/genoa? Get 3 sets up the luff. You want them breaking at the same time for proper twist in the headsail. cars back tightens the foot more, leech less. Car forward does the opposite.
Over the years I've run into a lot of different sailors, who have different views on sail trim items. A small number of them have told me that they think telltales on the main & jib are stupid - that's just after I explained that I feel that telltales are absolutely the most important sail trim indicator on the boat and that no non-electronic or electronic devise has been developed that approaches their sensitivity and effectiveness. At that point, I wonder to myself "why am I here" and then go on to hope the the beer and sandwiches will be good because I'm wasting my time, which was being donated at no charge!!

Anyway, if a mate doesn't want to add all the telltales that would help them to check/balance their main & jib, I suggest (request) that for this sail only they let me add one telltale to the top of the mainsail and two telltales to the middle of the jib -- I even bring my own telltales!! One Long Beach, Ca sailor declined my request, Fortunately, my boat was was only a few docks away so I bid him farewell and went home, which was too bad because his wife or girlfriend was pretty nice looking. Occasionally, I'd see this skipper sailing around and he had the crappiest sail trim I've ever seen. In fact, I used him as an example of what not to do.
 
Mar 23, 2015
259
Catalina 22 MK-II Dillon, CO
Been following this thread since its inception with some amusement and incredulity. Clearly, the bar fight over how a sail provides thrust, (that is what makes one move, is it not) will not be settled here. Crawled out of my office the other day after flying it back from SNA to Dallas at 45,000 feet, and not once did the thought of Mssrs. Bernoulli or Newton come to mind. I think Catalanc asked how to set the jib fairleads, not the intro to aerodynamics 101. As several have mentioned, sailing on jib alone is a very practical and low work load form of no-compete sailing and I do it regularly on my C320. Windy day, old guy, why keep score? It promotes cheating! Buy Dons book, learn the function and effect of "all" the sail controls. Get a hand held GPS, go sail, move stuff around and see what happens. Empirical study has debunked more than one "theory". And go sail with some of the guys that finish up front in the beer can races. They may not know why they win, but they sure know how. And the next thing you know you'll want a bigger boat.
Been playing a bit with car position, backstay tension and outhaul tension, looking at what it does to boat speed and sail trim. The telltales are pretty shredded and need to be replaced. Unfortunately need to pull my boat out of the water in two weeks when the marina closes for the winter, but plan on reading over the winter lull. Thanks for all the input.
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,511
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
Good advice about the tail tells. One thing about high elevation sailing is that the wind speed and direction change a lot more than at low elevation and this is especially true in the mountains. At Dillon (over 9000 ft and smack in middle of some really great mountains), a forecast of 5 to 15 might mean it will blow 5 knts for a 30 seconds and then 15 knts for 30 seconds, then repeat. Or it might mean it will blow out of the N for 5 seconds then out of the East for 15 seconds. Things change about a million times faster at Dillon compared to Long Beach. Jib car placement.. you might get it right for about a minute, then its not right.. but wait five minutes and it will be right again.

So... another angle on this is how do you deal with conditions that change REALLY FAST. I make the trade-off of just finding a generally good spot for the jib car and sheet and spend most of my time constantly adjusting the main - both watching the tail tells and feeling for power. This is also with a fractional rig which might make a difference.

Point being that all the advice for steadier winds certainly applies but you will need to adapt somewhat for high elevation mountain sailing.
 
Last edited:
Mar 23, 2015
259
Catalina 22 MK-II Dillon, CO
Good advice about the tail tells. One thing about high elevation sailing is that the wind speed and direction change a lot more than at low elevation and this is especially true in the mountains. At Dillon (over 9000 ft and smack in middle of some really great mountains), a forecast of 5 to 15 might mean it will blow 5 knts for a 30 seconds and then 15 knts for 30 seconds, then repeat. Or it might mean it will blow out of the N for 5 seconds then out of the East for 15 seconds. Things change about a million times faster at Dillon compared to Long Beach. Jib car placement.. you might get it right for about a minute, then its not right.. but wait five minutes and it will be right again.

So... another angle on this is how do you deal with conditions that change REALLY FAST. I make the trade-off of just finding a generally good spot for the jib car and sheet and spend most of my time constantly adjusting the main - both watching the tail tells and feeling for power. This is also with a fractional rig which might make a difference.

Point being that all the advice for steadier winds certainly applies but you will need to adapt somewhat for high elevation mountain sailing.
Thanks Walt. As they say, if you don't like the weather in Colorado, just wait 5 minutes. Your suggestion is kinda where I am zeroing in, but it is still tempting to move and adjust stuff based on comments in this forum and youtube videos, even if for only a minute or two.
 
May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
A couple of months ago my wife & I visited Lake Dillon on our way to Denver for a graduation. It is a beautiful setting but at 9000' I could hardly catch my breath but the weirdest thing that happened was the wind blew my hat off and then quickly changed direction and blew it back on my head!! I think it would be a tough place to sail a boat unless you were very quick at changing settings -- not a "set it & forget it" place to sail.
 
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Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
1,197
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
hey bentwing....just saw your reply on my post and wanted to clarify. here here bentwing is meant to draw attention directly to YOUR POST for the original poster: as a very good answer. especially in light of the re-directional change of topic fwiw i have a telltale at the top speed stripe as well. and find it useful too. while leech on main helps me more with confirming proper twist. do you have tales at 35% at multiple heights?
 
Oct 28, 2008
24
Catalina 320 Lake Texoma
Yes, on the main 1st (lowest) set just above the first reef line, 2nd set about mid-sail and 3rd set a couple of panels below the head.
 
Jun 24, 2014
14
Catalina 36 Mk II #2124 Crystal River
I think there was plenty of Newtons flying around on this thread. Including a couple Fig Newtons. Best advice I have seen on sailing is to buy Don's Book, then go out and sail your boat until you learn what is her favorite sail positions. In my case, I ended up with new tell-tales, lines taped off, and cars marked for my boat. Catalina 36 Mk II