How to replace a pump-out hose?

[ToddS]

My sanitation hoses are due (overdue) for replacement and I'd like to tackle that project this spring. I was thinking (per Peggy's recommendation, and others' as well) that I'd use the Raritan Sani/flex hose... and they're on sale at Defender this week. In measuring what I'll need to order, I found that I have 5 hoses total that are "downstream" from the toilet:

• from the head to a "Y" valve
• from the "Y" valve to the holding tank
• from the "Y valve to a through-hull
• from the tank to the overboard vent
• from the tank to the deck pump-out fitting

The first 4 seem easy enough using 1.5" flexible hose. I think I've got those under control. The last one though... the pump-out hose on my boat seems to be appriximately 2" diameter... definitely bigger than the rest of the hoses, which are 1.5. I didn't take it off of its fittings to get an accurate interior diameter measurement, but it is noticeably larger than the others, and in putting a measuring tape around the circumference, it is about 1.75" farther around than the others... which (divided by pi) would be about 1/2" additional of diameter. Anyhow... not surprisingly, it takes a fairly sharp turn to get from the bottom of the holding tank up to the deck... So using a stiffer hose doesn't seem like it'll be fun/successful. Should I:

1. Leave it and just replace the others?
2. Try to replace it using rigid PVC?
3. Deal with the difficulty of using more rigid hose?
4. Use some other product that I'm not familiar with?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. This is on a Beneteau 373 with no macerator pump.
Thanks.

 

[dlochner]

Of all the hoses to replace, the pumpout hose is the one that needs to be replaced the most as it is the one with the strongest odor. The hose will always have stuff in it and the odor from that stuff will permeate the hose and stink. The other hoses will be less prone to smell but can clog with calcium restricting the flow.

Most if not all pumpout fittings are 1.5". I suspect that hose is simply a different brand. Trident 101 has a larger OD than the comparable Shields hose or some cheap vinyl hoses. If you can, pull the hose off the deck fitting and measure the ID.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Apparently your pumpout hose is a different type of hose than the others--thicker wall or, more likely, double wall rubber hose....'cuz it has to have the same 1.5" inner diameter as the other hoses or it wouldn't fit the tank fitting or the hose barb on the deck pumpout fitting. I suspect a PO used it in the hope it would be more odor permeation resistant than the other hoses he used.

So you'll be ok with 1.5" SaniFlex, but instead of bending it sharply to go up the deck fitting I'd use a 90 degree thread-barb tank fitting.

Btw...SaniFlex is only available in 1" and 1.5"...so unless you're also planning to replace the standard 5/8" vent with a new 1" tank vent fitting and thru-hull (which would be an excellent idea unless the PO has already done that), you won't be able to use SaniFlex for the vent line. If you have to use 5/8" hose, it's ok to use Shields or Trident flex PVC #148 for that.

--Peggie

 

[ToddS]

Thanks Peggie,
It looks like my existing VENT hose is 1.5" as well... seems like overkill to me... but hey... better too big than too small I guess. I should have taken pictures... maybe next time.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Better too big than too small...but there is a limit. And who knows what kind of hose the PO may have use for the vent...it may not even be sanitation hose. So don't buy new till you've removed it and can check the ID...and remember,..hose sizes are always stated as the INNER diameter.

Btw...how long is the vent line...how straight is it? If there are bends in it, the PO may have thought that a larger ID hose would compensate (not much if any). If so, straighten and shorten as much as possible, even if it means a new thru-hull for the vent in a better location.

--Peggie

 

[ToddS]

Thanks Peggy,
Tank to vent is about 3 feet... not too curvy... pretty short and direct. I'll post here as I progress... Defender has a sale on saniflex right now $8.60-something per foot... not bad... At the very least, I'm replacing all three hoses connected to the "Y" valve (from head, to overboard, to tank) and will measure the other two (pumpout and vent) I.D.s to be 100% sure... but I'm HOPIING I can do 1.5" for all of 'em. I'll post my progress (and/or failures) here so the world can learn from my experience.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

And PULEEEZE contact me directly if you run into ANYything that raises a question. I LOVE helping people getting it all right the first time...but I really hate it when I could have saved someone from him/herself if only they'd asked, but were afraid to look stupid so they didn't. There is no such thing as stupid question, only answers you need.

--Peggie

 

[ToddS]

Slow/steady progress update:
Yesterday I visited the boat and began the process... took me forever to remove/replace one hose... but that's because it was a learning experience... the others will go more quickly now that I know what I'm doing, and which tools and techniques work best. I started with the toilet/joker-valve to y-valve hose, as that one is the longest, and trickiest of the bunch on my boat (just under 5 feet long and passes through a bulkhead... making a turn just beyond the bulkhead that was difficult... very difficult... but not impossible... all (of course) in tight quarters for reaching hands... lots of scraped knuckles, but that one hose has been replaced (whew!). I double-checked and the next three hoses are all 1.5". One from the Y to the overboard seacock... one from the Y to the tank... and one from the tank to the vent (yes that's 1.5" as well, and APPEARS to be that way from the factory). None of those take significant turns, and none pass through bulkheads or through hard-to-reach places, so they should go much faster. It was cold (40-45 degrees fahrenheit) yesterday, and I found (after much frustration) that a little (careful!) heating of the hose with a heat gun improved flexibility. I was careful not to heat so much that it would melt/degrade the hoses... nothing hotter than I could handle with bare hands.
The pump-out hose remains the strangest part to me... It is noticeably bigger than 1/5". I suspect 2". I know the real test will be to remove and measure the I.D., but didn't do that yet because I will need to cut/destroy the old hose in order to remove it, and don't have a replacement for it yet. I'm also not looking forward to the likely mess that hose may contain, as it is the "lowest point" below the tank, and pretty difficult to place something "under" to catch any contents which will otherwise spill behind a bulkhead and under the sole of the head. I may do some creative work with my wet-dry vac as I disasseble that hose from the top-down to minimize spillage. The exterior/visible part of that hose LOOKS like all the other hoses installed for sanitation on the boat... white on the outside, with blue inside, fairly stiff, with a helical steel wire reinforcement inside... smooth-walled (not corrigated)... heavy-duty... no branding/marking on the outside. I'm going to contact the P.O. (who was the original owner) and ask him if all the plumbing is from the factory... I suspect it is. From what I can see (admittedly limited) the deck fitting's back side has a double-hose clamped hose barb fitting for the 2" hose...which all looks pretty "factory-installed" to me. I'll investigate further and share findings here. The bottom of my holding tank has a 90-degree plastic (looks like PVC) fitting which then connects immediately to a large hose-barb fitting which is double clamped to the large pump-out mystery hose.

 

[BigEasy]

Todd,
Are you using the Raritan sani flex hose that Peggy Hall highly recommends? My boat has the original Trident hoses that were factory installed.

 

[ToddS]

Todd,
Are you using the Raritan sani flex hose that Peggy Hall highly recommends? My boat has the original Trident hoses that were factory installed.

yup... I bought a bunch of it when it was on sale at Defender last month... enough to do everything except my pump-out hose, which I may or may not downsize to 1.5" depending on how I end up handling that.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The pump-out hose remains the strangest part to me... It is noticeably bigger than 1/5".

Unless your tank discharge fitting and deck pumpout fitting are both non-standard , which is highly unlikely, the pumpout hose has to be 1.5" 'cuz the standard size for holding tank discharge fittings, deck fills and pumpout fittings has been 1.5" since the 1960s. It's prob'ly just a thicker walled hose than the others. If none of the others are double clamped, they should be 'cuz ALL hose connections in a sanitation system should be double clamped, with screws 180 degrees apart...or at least 90 degrees if access makes 180 impossible. So I'm betting a PO replaced the pumpout hose because it stank and used fuel, exhaust or who-knows-what kind of hose in a misguided effort to use something odor proof.
Fwiw, all production boat builders use the cheapest hose...and because waste is always standing in a pumpout hose on a tank that has the discharge fitting at the bottom, it's typically the first one to stink.

Btw...You should be able to put a plastic waste basket liner under it to catch any spill when you remove it from the tank.

--Peggie

 

[ToddS]

Ugh... Just as I suspected... I'm at the boat now... Had to cut/sacrifice the old pump out hose to remove it (the good news is that I can get the whole tank out now for a good cleaning) and the pump out hose is 2" I.D.... so now I'm stuck. I also confirmed with the prior/original owner who took delivery from beneteau that he never touched (or hired anyone else to touch) the sanitation plumbing. He lived in Maryland, USA, but the boat was actually built in France. So now I need to find the impossible... 2" sanitation plumbing... I really don't want to change out the original fittings/etc... I just wanted to swap out a hose... Very frustrated. Anyhow, the vent uses 1.5" as I thought, and the pump out uses 2"... I suppose maybe I could add a reducer down to 1.5", but that just seems like a terrible way to solve the problem. Advice?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Well...I'll be d'd!! First time in 30 yrs I've ever heard of a deck pumpout fitting that can accept a 2" hose...and finding suitable hose that size may be the least of your problems because if the deck pumpout end of that fitting is also non-standard, it may not be compatible with any pumpout connector. I'd find out before going any further with trying to find 2" hose that'll work.

Fwiw, deck pumpout fittings are fairly inexpensive and not very hard to swap out unless access to the underside of it creates a problem. What size is the discharge fitting on the tank? If it's 2", it'll be a lot easier to find a 1.5" -2" reducing adapter to use at that end than it will be to find suitable 2" hose.

And just had an idea that just might be the easiest solution, assuming that your tank discharge fitting is at the bottom of the tank. Because waste rises in the discharge line to the level in the tank, which leaves standing sewage in the pumpout hose to permeate, I've known a number of people who've used pvc pipe from the discharge fitting to the top of the tank, then switched to hose for the rest of the way to the deck fitting. You'd still have to replace the deck fitting, but a pvc reducing adapter at the top end of the pipe--which would need to have a 1.5" OD to fit into a 1.5" hose--would have to be easier to find than 2" hose. You should be able to find the pipe and adapters--everything but the deck fitting--in the plumbing department of big box hardware store--or better yet, a real old fashioned hardware store...the folks that work in those are usually very creative problem solvers.

Just an idea...your mileage may vary. Meanwhile I'll scout hoses for one that's at least acceptable to carry sewage and also available in 2".

--Peggie

 

[ToddS]

I've had the boat for a couple years... And had it pumped out quite a few times in a few different harbors without any trouble... Below are pictures from above and below deck after removing the 2" hose... Appears to be standard equipment for a 2004 Beneteau 373... Though I think some boats had optional macerators installed and some did not (mine did not) and the others may have different plumbing. I can't say for sure. Your pvc idea is an interesting one... Pvc is cheap and easy to work with certainly... And I already have leftover 1.5" saniflex for the upper section bridging between the pvc and the deck fitting... I'll have to check how straight vs curved the lower part of that run is though... Harder to get pvc into a curved spot instead of hose... I'll check when I'm at the boat again.

 

[dlochner]

Warming PVC pipe with a hot air gun will soften the PVC and allow it to make gentle bends.

 

[ToddS]

Warming PVC pipe with a hot air gun will soften the PVC and allow it to make gentle bends.

Yeah... I've actually worked with pvc a fair amount and have done that before... I have to check out the space on the boat though... To see if it might work. I've also done some creative pvc bending by heating pipes in the oven at around 225 ferenheight (with windows open for extra ventilation).

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I'll have to check how straight vs curved the lower part of that run is though... Harder to get pvc into a curved spot instead of hose... I'll check when I'm at the boat again.

It should just go straight up alongside the tank. You'd use a 90 degree tank fitting.

--Peggie

 

[Richard19068]

View attachment 178129
View attachment 178128

Could that be 48mm? Trident's website shows they make 48mm Sani Shield.

 

[dlochner]

Could that be 48mm? Trident's website shows they make 48mm Sani Shield.

48 mm is 1.89 inches. pretty close.

 

[ToddS]

@Peggie Hall HeadMistress Next time I'm at the boat (over an hour away from where I live), I'll sort out whether or not I can easily fit rigid PVC for the lower portions of the pumpout... It needs to get around some hull tabbing and other obstacles in a fairly tight space, but I THINK it will work... Can't decide that for sure without being there.
For the "upper portion" of the pumpout hose situation, I have some decisions to make as well.
I could replace my deck fitting to one that has a 1.5" barb... If I have to go that route, I'd prefer one that matches my other deck fittings (2 water fills, 1 fuel, 1 waste in total). I LIKE that my current deck fills use winch handles rather than keys... and I'd rather not spend a ton, need to cut a different size hole, redrill, or use inferior materials (I know the aluminum ones are more likely to get stuck than the stainless ones). It is not easy to find a stainless steel star (winch handle) fitting waste fill fitting with a 1.5" hose barb. I'm tempted to keep my existing fitting, use about a 4" length of 2" hose just below the deck, and then one of these: 1429-251 - Spears 1429-251 - 2" x 1-1/2" PVC Reducer Insert Coupling (Insert x Insert) to reduce down to 1.5" then the saniflex hose (which I already purchased) down to where I switch over to PVC. I know that's more connections... more potential points of failure... but it seems better than recutting a new hole in my deck, etc. etc... just to swap out a smelly hose. Am I crazy? I can't imagine that tiny section of 2" hose, especially up that high where it hardly sees any action, is going to cause much stinking... and adding a reducer and a couple extra hose clamps doesn't weaken the system by too much in my humble opinion. What would you do?