How to fix hull crack

[hughvr]

My guess is that a surveyor will tell you to drop the keel and assess the damage, especially since it got worse while moving it. I expect that you will find that the crack is just along the resin used to fare from the keel to the hull, but the issue is likely to be damage to the keel sump. While it is off, you can get the fiberglass and any other structure redone. I had this done on my 42' Hunter. It cost about $10k . You could probably get it for less than half that by shopping around. Yes, this is way more than the boat cost, but you would know the boat is safe. If you don't like the boat that much, you can shop for another boat that costs $5k and have it surveyed.

 

[cb32863]

The boat isn't worth fixing. $1500 & with all the known issues, cut your losses. Part it out. Might make something back on it. Oh I know I am talking blasphemy in regards to the "it's a good old boat" crowd but, reality is what reality is. Do you really want to pour money in to this? That is what will happen. Thousands probably and it still won't be worth it. Sailboats are for sailing, not bringing dead back to on life support. Stop trying to get by cheap and find a solid boat you can actually sail and enjoy.

I am putting on my Nomex suit now as I will for sure be torched over this.

 

[Captain Bucknut]

MA, I would recommend a Marine Survey. I have had Greg Group conduct a survey for me and he is very thorough, knowledgeable and will be able to help you make an educated assessment of the damage.

His # is 440-946-1111

greg@greatlakesmarine.com

 

[Joe]

When I first looked at the boat, there was but a single small hairline crack about 6" long along the front of the keel. Two days after we trailered it about 40 miles and parked it is when I noticed how much bigger the crack had gotten. The keel bolts are tight but I didn't try to break them loose and tighten them back to the correct torque, so I think it's safe to assume that the whole keel is loose. Sounds like more than I want to get involved with. I'm not sure I want to pay for a survey, it sounds like spending good money after bad and even if it's worth repairing, I'm not sure if I'd ever feel safe.
Nothing's going to happen until next spring. The it will probably be Boat Angel or part it out and chalk it up to experience.

There's a possibility more damage may have occurred during transportation. Have a professional inspect it.

 

[Brian D]

MA... Did the boat come with the trailer or was that one borrowed? The reason I asked was selling the trailer alone may recoup the majority of your purchase.

 

[Wind River R41]

Fiberglass work is not difficult . $1500 could be a good learning experience if your interested in a new life commitment. Working on boats can be very rewarding if you have the patience. Nothing like sailing on a boat youv'e brought back to life. Lots of good advice available on line.

 

[Jackdaw]

I'm wondering why people are recommending he pay to have a surveyor look at it. For a price, he will look at that crack and say the boat has a problem. He might (if he's good enough and you pay him enough) dig deep enough to understand the full extent of the issue, but will not give a cost estimate to repair.

If you want to get it fixed, bring it to someone that would do that; they'll give you an estimate for FREE.

My guess is that any reputable surveyor will take a quick look at the boat and be willing to stop the survey and tell you its junk for the cost of the gas it took him to drive there.

 

[imagine504]

I am surprised by all the advice to hire a surveyor--most are untrained and unregulated (they do pay a membership fee which is supposed to provide credibility). They come with varying expertise, be aware they are not engineers or naval architects. They do a great job with inventorying the boat's resources, but for real technical knowledge I would go to a boatyard with a good reputation for repairs of this kind.
They will likely check the inside condition to determine if the fracture/damage has gone all the way through. If worth repairing, expect them to start grinding or peeling away glass until they find undamaged material. Epoxy and cloth to fill the damaged area. Then more epoxy and cloth on the inside. There are still many complications that can send the price soaring. When finished, it will be 'as good as new' (and nearly the same price).

 

[Sailing Fan]

I would consider using epoxy for the repair as well, rather than fiberglass resin from the local Home Depot, because the resin there is not marine quality (at least, it is not where I live, in Florida, though people do it all the time for these sorts of issues), and the epoxy resin sticks to old fiberglass better than new fiberglass sticks to old fiberglass. The epoxy costs a little more, sure, but it works a LOT better in not coming loose later. You can get epoxy resin online in Ebay, Amazon, or a host of other places, and it sticks to hair and skin or clothing exceptionally well, better than fiberglass resin in fact, so wear protective gear as if you were using polyester resin and you will be fine. Another nice thing about epoxy is that the liquid does not have a high VOC content like polyester does, so all the product you apply stays in the repair, it does not evaporate because there are no solvents to lose. This makes the repair stronger because the matrix sets up in the same fabric you would use anyway with the fiberglass resin, but it is far more waterproof than polyester ever will be. Additionally, there is no need for gelcoat. Bottom paint and you are on your way to sea. I would consider adding a backing plate of roving and epoxy inside the hull as well, both before and after the keel (once you determine where the likely damage aft is located). All in all, you are looking at about a half day of dremel work, a period of time of inspection and clearing interior to access the hull for that inspection (dependent upon what has to be moved), a full day of easing the external hull surface back a bit to allow the addition of more roving in the place of what you grind away in your layup prep, and probably a few very short days (of an hour or less apiece) to lay up the repair with the epoxy and glass roving fabric. Make the last layer something smoother and tighter to prevent severe displays of cloth texture at the surface so that fairing is far easier, and fair with epoxy as well for a very strong bond. It will be an excellent repair, and depending on your skills, will take a week or two to do, given the intermediate time needed between layers that are put on in 30 minutes or so per layer for the prior layer to gel enough to work over.

This is by no means an impossible fix. it is just that you have to have the intestinal fortitude to cut open the sole for the internal backing plate patch you will create (so the dremel would come in handy here again) and keep applying layers of material inside and out without shortcutting the process (thereby damaging the strength of the repair). Do not use CSM (chopped strand mat) cloth to patch this either, because it is a stressed part of the hull, and CSM is for making decorative turns (like a coaming) rather than any flat surface that is going to see significant stress in regular use, and it is also more prone to invasion by water leeched in through the glass of the original hull. Use single layers of e-glass that are oriented different ways at each layer, or better, bidirectional weave in each layer, layed up at alternative 45 degree angles. The cost will be the same as laying it up the same way, the labor will be about the same, but the results will be far more resilient. You will then have an extremely solid vessel with actually a REDUCTION in weight if you use epoxy, rather than an addition if you used polyester or vinyl-ester. It is definitely not impossible to save this vessel, but it will take a minor application of funds and mostly sweat equity. It may be as cheap to repair as it is to get the surveyor, maybe even less, depending on where you get the epoxy (hint, I get enough epoxy to BUILD a few dingies entirely out of six gallons of product (2/3 resin, 1/34 hardener, or a 2/1 mix) off Ebay for something like 350 bucks or less, SHIPPED cost to Florida from Texas, and you would need far less than that for this). Remember that as epoxy does not evaporate away like fiberglass resin mix does, you can look at the amount to fill the area, add in perhaps ten percent for waste, and STILL have extra after the fabric is applied and the remainder can be mixed with any number of things to make a paste for filling, to include, of all things, wood sawdust or even flour from the pantry to fair the final appearance and make it easy to sand.

 

[JimLanter]

Gotta say, I'm with Jackdaw on this one if I'm correct in understanding that this is a $1500 Catalina 22 we are talking about. If so, it is my guess that the money it will cost to repair it correctly could be more than buying another Cat 22. But, in any event, I would take it to a yard to get a quote (for free) on the repair, and ask the yard if it is worth fixing. Then decide how much money you want to throw into an old, plastic Cat 22.

The only time I think surveyors are worth their money is when buying a used boat and getting a second set of eyes to look it over and assess its value, or perhaps in assessing serious damage to a very expensive boat. For cheap boats, go with the yard.

 

[Sailing Fan]

By the way, mix the resin only as you need it, because mine will fire in 18 minutes, come hell or high water, and if it is not on the repair or build at that time, it will stay wherever it is when it locks up. At that point you toss the object or whatever it is in, because hardened epoxy will not come off of anything. Skin sloughs off before the epoxy will, in other words. You CAN dilute it to get it off your skin with acetone, but don't put acetone in it to make it easier to work or lengthen working time, it weakens the matrix to dissolution in enough volume, but it also makes the epoxy weak in general while adding air space as the acetone evaporates, leaving you with ways for water to get in and weakening the material in general.

You can use little mixing cups that cost less than a buck apiece, or you can use empty butter tubs or tupperware you get at a yard sale, but don't use a container for multiple mixed batches or you will sooner or later get amine blush on your finished product that will require sanding to get the final coat applied and again (as it often works through) to paint. Not the end of the world, but more a pain in the butt for perfectionists like myself who like to see the wood below clear epoxy...

You may have a week of work in front of you, maybe far less, but that is dependent on what you find, and how dedicated you are to working on the boat instead of just having a brewski and lamenting misfortune, as so many folks are apt to do. It would not be the first time an easy repair was derailed by handwringing and worry or lack of desire to see it through, but the cost of the repair itself, if YOU do it, is not at all high. The labor cost will be the issue, and labor can run $90 per hour or more for a shipyard or marina facility/boat shop to do this. They get paid well because the work exposes them to harmful things, it is infrequent, and because you want the boat back this year, and so does everyone else. Doing it at home, especially if it is on a trailer (bonus!) is the way to go if you are up to it.

Another thing, brace the keel in its position and the hull in the area as well as you can without getting in the way of your own access prior to grinding this material away. If you do grind through the hull (not likely necessary if no leaking is there, you can look visually and if it actually does make it to the inside, you won't likely see that all the way across) the hull can shift if you don't take the effort to keep it as before shaped by stacking wood blocks between your trailer and the sides of the bow sheer and the stem. You don't want any shifts because with the grinding, they will become less apparent as you go. Once everything is back in place and hardened, and she pulls to the side a little, it will be too late to make this incredibly easy and free preventative measure work for you... Just a thought..

 

[SailormanDan]

I agree with the folks recommending that you go find another boat, spend your time & money sailing, not working on a boat. They made 14,000-some Catalina 22's, so it's not going to be hard to find another.

 

[lillia28]

I'd call Catalina. You will need to anyway to find out the lay up schedule if you decide to fix it. They will likely be able to say, Happens all the time, here's how you fix it, or OMG, I've never seen THAT before! Catalina is still supporting their older boats, and will have a better idea of what is under the gelcoat, and can give you a better idea of what to expect. I agree with Jackdaw, a surveyor may not be able to tell whether a repair is feasible. Catalina on the other hand has some 30 + years experience with these boats.
Lou

 

[Lost Horizon]

Wow, these arm chair sailors and internet surfers are quick to condemn your purchase and your boat. News Flash: this IS an easy fix. No need to pay a surveyor more than you paid for the boat. The absolute worst case if you were to fix it yourself is that it would crack again. Simply find someone on Craigslist or through a recommendation who can fix fiberglass if you can't fix it yourself. Using epoxy and several layers of fiberglass will improve your chances of the crack not returning. Others here seem to think this is the space shuttle or something. This is a 26 foot trailer sailor. If you haven't given in to all the negative Nancies here I think you will enjoy the boat for many years to come. Congrats on your new boat!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

For those of you that did not follow the previous thread about the blisters, this is a Pearson 26 that was purchased, presumably, after we went through a long discussion about blisters. This seems to me to be a horse of a different color. I'm basically surprised that MaryEllaRose didn't bring the crack he saw to our attention before entering into the discussion regarding the blisters (which appeared to be truly a minor issue) before purchasing the boat. The opinions probably would have been a lot different regarding the overall effort to restore the boat for sailing. Are there any other hidden secrets regarding this boat? Did the PO disclose the crack and the minor "bump" before or after these major cracks appeared after towing? At this point, if it was me and I didn't get a full refund for the boat, I'd be pretty pissed off and I'd be thinking about the next step towards recovering the money from the PO (regardless of how old, feeble, and benign he appears). Aside from that, the photo that was previously shown (a close-up of tiny surface blisters) did not represent the deplorable condition of the hull and keel, as seen in this more recent photo. What was the reason for not disclosing this condition earlier? I wasn't in agreement with cb before, but I am now. This boat is a waste of time and effort. Get your money back from the PO, if you can. Don't listen to a sob story, this was fraud.

 

[soggysocks]

Lots of talk about using a dremel tool - for little stuff they are fine - you will need a grinder for this.

Do not hire a surveyor - they are pretty much required to give you an over the top estimate for liabilities sake.

Fiberglass work below the waterline is simple but messy (think fiberglass dust).
The actual fiberglassing is fun and Very easy - the sanding and fairing is not bad either particularly when it will be painted over with bottom paint. But the tiny glass fibers need to be guarded against and that can be tricky and sweaty and itchy.

Overall on a Cat22 what you are looking at is probably pretty simple and something you can do yourself if you are up to the task.

Small plastic boats such as this can flex a great deal and still be very repairable - and in reality for a do it your self job - I'd take hull repair over deck repair in many cases - (I'm a perfectionist and visible cosmetic work often needs a pro).

Given the boat crack it looks like it may have been somehow dropped - it does not look like an impact head on - or - and this is very possible - it was caused by tensioning the rigging to high and cracking the area shown. I doubt it would take much to "heal" this situation.

However - that said - look on Craigslist and get a clear picture of what Cat22s are going for.
Cat27s go all day for 1500-3500 here in the SF Bay Area. Sometimes for free. If yours is overall in good shape and this is the only real expense then it might be worth it.

A yard will be able to tell you what you have in the way of repair - you can also find fiberglass repair people on Craigslist - since this is not a cosmetic job many people that should not touch visible areas would be excellent for this - it is basically a grind and fill and layer and sand and paint job - no fine feathering, color matching and spraying and buffing.

You will need a shop vac with good filters/bags. Tyvex coveralls, nitrile gloves, safety glasses, ear mufflers, respirator - and advice from a local yard on what epoxy and glass and filler to buy.
Go to a yard - not a West Marine - you need to talk to people who do this for a living or hire one.

There are YouTube videos for nearly everything as well and many of them are superb.

Total cost for the epoxy and glass will probably be around $150 - way less if you only had to purchase what you will actually need. Go to Harbor Freight for cheap tools that will definitely do this job perfectly - get 36 grit sand paper for most of this job - an angle grinder - if you can borrow a BIG air compressor then a DA and an angle grinder is all you need.

Then read up on how to properly tension rigging - this looks like a crack from a forstay that was way overtightened. I have seen a nearly identical crack on an Erickson 39' from an overtensioned forestay. The repair on it did not take long and they continued on their sail around the world.

 

[croatan fan]

Sorry to read of your misfortune.
The one bright spot is that it wasn't discovered suddenly off shore when you were to far out to walk home.
My wish for you is not to give up on sailing due to this sad experience.

 

[Sarah Alison]

If already stated, sorry. Didn't realize there we so many responses.
As a charter member of "Cheap & Lazy, Inc.", I can't help but see if ANY repair is worth it.
Easy to figure out, for me... I've got the web!
About 5 minutes of looking at one site, showed Catalina 22's going for:
$3200, for a 1973 "good shape for it's age" boat, in Florida.
To
Something like $23,000, for a new one(Yeek!).

I'd have to say, if the boat is otherwise "fine", even a $3200(Or less? You should join Cheapster!) boat, whatever you're likely to spend on a repair, no matter who does it, will be w-e-l-l worth it. With standard fiberglass construction technique, repairs are relatively simple, almost no matter what, compared to any other type of construction, and, with epoxy as the repair medium, may well be "better than new"! No matter who does it, have it estimated and have it done! .......Or give it to ME.....!

 

[whitecap26w]

None of the replies of the reply`s mentioned cost TO repair I would say that between the survey and the repair we are probably talking about more than you paid for the boat Your desicion

 

[cb32863]

It is a Pearson 26 everyone. Heck, the lead in the keel can get you about $750. Half what you paid, back. Winches and other stuff, who knows. Might get decent money for the trailer or cradle it is on. Just not worth it to "restore". Get a boat you can actually enjoy sailing instead of constantly fixing on the pretense that you might go sailing some day.