How to fix hull crack
- Thread starter MaryEllaRose
- Start date
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,534
Well I guess it depends.
- How long do you plan on keeping the boat and sailing her?
- Is this a day sailer close to shore and available rescue resources should she develop a leak?
- Is she trailered so she can leak water out when not being sailed
We day sail on the west end of Lake Erie. I was going to keep her in a slip...a little too big to trailer sail. Does mean the darn this will fall off?
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,534
Unclear as to how it is secured. Bolted to interior hull or a frame member in the bilge?
Looking at the picture, it appears I am looking at the front of the keel. The crack appears to be on the bow side of the keel. Is this correct?
Based on these assumptions, I guess the boat hit something hard enough to create what looks like a semi circular crack in the hull ahead of the keel. Do you see hull damage on the inside of the hull?
Looking at the picture, it appears I am looking at the front of the keel. The crack appears to be on the bow side of the keel. Is this correct?
Based on these assumptions, I guess the boat hit something hard enough to create what looks like a semi circular crack in the hull ahead of the keel. Do you see hull damage on the inside of the hull?
No, the proper repair does not depend on "how you are going to use the boat." If you are going to fix it, then fix it once and fix it right.
You need to have a competent surveyor look this over and prescribe a correct repair. Just based on the photo it looks to me like it may require some serious structural work. In that case, filling and fairing the crack is not the right approach.
That doesn't look good. Damage like that can also occur to the aft end of the hull if a keel hit a submerged object. The trailing edge of the keel would be forced up into the hull causing similar results. This is not a fill and fair type of repair. The keel may not fall off but this damage severely compromised the structural integrity of the hull. Is there visible damage inside the bilge or to any structural ribs or stringers? Is the photo showing the forward or aft end of the keel? It is a repairable project for a very handy owner but it's not a simple repair. I would also recommend a professional assessment and guidance if you decide to do the repair yourself.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,534
Ted you are right it does not look good. If you have read some of MA's other posts you might understand that he is recently retired and has the time to work on a boat this winter. This was a boat purchased for under $1500. As such it is highly likely the boat was damaged. Where else will you find a 26 foot boat for that value.
The boat has been on the hard for several years so unless there has been water leaking in from the deck topside it is possible a dry hull.
Would I take it out on the Pacific Northwest waters, NO. But then there are a number of boaters that would not go sailing in our waters.
If the hull is sound and the keel is not loose then perhaps MA can patch the bottom, seal the hull with a bottom coat and bottom paint then take her sailing in his local environment. There are surely boat owners that have ventured out on the water with boats in worse condition.
MA, It would not hurt to make friends in the local area who have worked on boats and get their opinion. As far as paying for a professional survey you are likely not going to be happy spending the money for the answer you will receive.
The boat has been on the hard for several years so unless there has been water leaking in from the deck topside it is possible a dry hull.
Would I take it out on the Pacific Northwest waters, NO. But then there are a number of boaters that would not go sailing in our waters.
If the hull is sound and the keel is not loose then perhaps MA can patch the bottom, seal the hull with a bottom coat and bottom paint then take her sailing in his local environment. There are surely boat owners that have ventured out on the water with boats in worse condition.
MA, It would not hurt to make friends in the local area who have worked on boats and get their opinion. As far as paying for a professional survey you are likely not going to be happy spending the money for the answer you will receive.
My understanding from a quick reading of Dan's website is that the keel is secured to a plywood sub structure imbedded in the bottom. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. The PO admitted having had "bumped into something" but that it didn't cause a leak. He claims it was discovered only after soda blasting years of accumulated bottom paint. A classic case of hearing what you want to hear. I've looked at the keel bolt area and there doesn't seem to be any cracks, etc., but then I'm not really sure what to look for.
What's the worst / best case scenario here? If the keel is indeed busted loose is there any point in throwing good money after bad? If the hull is just cracked, would it be possible to patch it so that it doesn't leak?
It's true I didn't spend a lot of money on this boat, but if it is possible to fix, I'm willing to try as long it is possible to do so and end up with a safe boat. If there's a chance of the keel falling off or a catastrophic leak suddenly developing I'll just cut my losses.
What's the worst / best case scenario here? If the keel is indeed busted loose is there any point in throwing good money after bad? If the hull is just cracked, would it be possible to patch it so that it doesn't leak?
It's true I didn't spend a lot of money on this boat, but if it is possible to fix, I'm willing to try as long it is possible to do so and end up with a safe boat. If there's a chance of the keel falling off or a catastrophic leak suddenly developing I'll just cut my losses.
It is a serious crack and from the look of it almost certainly structural. (We are not talking "Catalina smile" here....) There is no point in speculating about "worst/best case" scenarios. You need to have it professionally assessed so you know what *your* "scenario" is. And please do not listen to advice that suggests it may be OK to ignore this if you only sail the boat in benign conditions, etc. You should not sail the boat until you take care of this.
Regardless, I would still hire a surveyor to take a serious look. Only they can tell you to keep or sell the boat. You can look all you want and not see anything internal to the boat, but if the crack is lateral (moving through the layers of glass) then a lot of delamination would have/will occur.
Get it looked at before you assume the boat is not readily fixable. And perhaps get more than one quote from a reputable yard. In saying that the boat is structurally compromised, it does not necessarily follow that the repair will be difficult or costly. It may well be, but you don't know that. At this point you don't really know what you are dealing with. Have a competent marine surveyor look at it, prescribe a correct fix, and then see whether it is worth it to you to fix it. But the last thing you should do is ignore it.
Thanx for all the good advice. The boat's covered for the winter so I won't be doing much about it until spring. Any ideas as to what a surveyor would charge me to come and look at it?
It appears that the PO had more than a slight bump to cause that kind of damage. Regardless of what end of the keel we are looking at in the photo, the other end of the hull adjacent to the keel needs to be inspected both inside the hull and outside. Usually when the keel hits something hard, like a rock, there will be damage at both ends. To fix this damage properly, its going to take some serious grinding & beveling along with multiple layups of fiberglass both inside & out to make the repair structurally sound. The keel might also require removal to address any damage caused to the core/grid. If you have surveyors near your locale, I would estimate about $250 for them to come out and take a look. You really need to have someone who knows what they are doing to properly assess the damage and provide the protocol for repairs and a rough estimate as to how much this is going to cost.
I hate to say this; however, this is a classic example as to why a prepurchase survey should be done --even on an inexpensive boat when a prospective owner lacks experience in inspecting and repairing boats. At least you would know what you are dealing with up front, before taking possession of the boat, to find that you are going to incur significant costs that exceed the value of the boat and a lot of time to complete the repairs. Some boats just aren't worth the trouble & cost.
Finallly, this isn't something that you can just patch, as with the blisters. This is a serious structural problem that put you and everyone on the boat at risk. Please don't take a chance with this one; either fix it properly ( if it can be fixed) or move on. Please keep up updated as to the findings.
I hate to say this; however, this is a classic example as to why a prepurchase survey should be done --even on an inexpensive boat when a prospective owner lacks experience in inspecting and repairing boats. At least you would know what you are dealing with up front, before taking possession of the boat, to find that you are going to incur significant costs that exceed the value of the boat and a lot of time to complete the repairs. Some boats just aren't worth the trouble & cost.
Finallly, this isn't something that you can just patch, as with the blisters. This is a serious structural problem that put you and everyone on the boat at risk. Please don't take a chance with this one; either fix it properly ( if it can be fixed) or move on. Please keep up updated as to the findings.
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I concur with the advice above to get a professional assessment. The west end of Lake Erie ( we sail out of Sandusky) is capable of real "heavy weather," and you want a strong hull to enjoy the islands and visit other ports.
When I first looked at the boat, there was but a single small hairline crack about 6" long along the front of the keel. Two days after we trailered it about 40 miles and parked it is when I noticed how much bigger the crack had gotten. The keel bolts are tight but I didn't try to break them loose and tighten them back to the correct torque, so I think it's safe to assume that the whole keel is loose. Sounds like more than I want to get involved with. I'm not sure I want to pay for a survey, it sounds like spending good money after bad and even if it's worth repairing, I'm not sure if I'd ever feel safe.
Nothing's going to happen until next spring. The it will probably be Boat Angel or part it out and chalk it up to experience.
Nothing's going to happen until next spring. The it will probably be Boat Angel or part it out and chalk it up to experience.
No, it wouldn't be easy. But it probably is fixable.
Even if you don't want to worry about it now, it wouldn't hurt to take some more pictures of both outside and in and then buy or borrow a Dremel tool with a supply of cone-shaped grinding wheels.
Doing this step will not have any negative effect if you do decide to fix it, but will really let you know what you have.
In the simplest terms, you'd grind a U-shaped trench all along the crack until it disappears. If it doesn't disappear until you go through the hull, then your repair will be a bit harder. If you can go along the length of the crack and make it disappear the whole length, your repair can be localized along the crack. It wouldn't be a simple fill and fair: You'd still need to scarf back and open up a trench 12X the thickness of the hull and build back layer after layer.
The key thing is this: If you pay a surveyor to inspect the boat and he sees that the crack goes all the way into the inside, he will not likely recommend that it be fixed. And, you'll still have to pay him for doing the inspection. On the other hand, if you can verify that no portion of the crack continues all the way through the hull (likely about 3/8" to 1/2" thick here in the bilge), you can either decide to repair in the spring or be completely up front if you Boat Angel it for a more adventurous soul to repair. And, you can probably get a surveyor to give you a rough opinion by just looking at the before and after pictures.
Done properly, fiberglass boats can be repaired and last many more years. But, I'd agree that the repair would need to be done properly to use in the chop on Lake Erie.
Definitely not a fill and fair repair!