How to control the mast rotation
- Thread starter r.oril
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The spreader does not move. Hold your arms out, turn your body but don't move the position of your arms. The stays are relocated to the front center of the hound on a D ring. The mast moves freely and the stays don't move.finding41 said:
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Ok. I think.. What about the for and back stays?
Here is what you posted on the other site...
Now this is where you have to some math. The mast raise up 1 3/4 inches, the stays are attached to the lower D shackle. Hours later I locate the position to make the new holes and drill. Mine were about 2-3 inches above the old ones. I raised the mast with the baby stays and sloppy lower stays, made the adjustments to straighten the mast and it worked. I had room for adjustment on the turnbuckles. This ended the first day.
Now I have a brain fart. I rigged a wire to the hound, pulled it up to where I figured it might fit and raised the mast. The stays wound be adjustable with the turnbuckles so I drilled the new holes. The back stay has to be loose to allow the mast to turn. I installed the new hound and top stays, raised the mast and adjusted the turnbuckles.
I used a Loos Gage and made the lowers 6 and the uppers 16 for now. The mast rotates and is straight with the boat.
Now the forestay is very short so into my box of boat parts to find an shroud adjuster and installed the forestay. This ended the second day.
I can see the spreaders not moving but the fore and aft? Is there a pivot point up there too? Won't you loose mast shape if it turns? ( they would get tighter, pushing down on the mast)...loosening the other stays?? Does the deck flex downward?
What about your furler? Does it seem looser when on close haul? and tighten on a reach?
( I went to look at a M that was for sale locally in the fall on Sat. He must have sold it because its gone. I think I'll have to see this set up to get my head around it.)
Here is the 26M drawing. It looks like it doesn't have a aft stay that goes past the end of the boom!
Here is what you posted on the other site...
Now this is where you have to some math. The mast raise up 1 3/4 inches, the stays are attached to the lower D shackle. Hours later I locate the position to make the new holes and drill. Mine were about 2-3 inches above the old ones. I raised the mast with the baby stays and sloppy lower stays, made the adjustments to straighten the mast and it worked. I had room for adjustment on the turnbuckles. This ended the first day.
Now I have a brain fart. I rigged a wire to the hound, pulled it up to where I figured it might fit and raised the mast. The stays wound be adjustable with the turnbuckles so I drilled the new holes. The back stay has to be loose to allow the mast to turn. I installed the new hound and top stays, raised the mast and adjusted the turnbuckles.
I used a Loos Gage and made the lowers 6 and the uppers 16 for now. The mast rotates and is straight with the boat.
Now the forestay is very short so into my box of boat parts to find an shroud adjuster and installed the forestay. This ended the second day.
I can see the spreaders not moving but the fore and aft? Is there a pivot point up there too? Won't you loose mast shape if it turns? ( they would get tighter, pushing down on the mast)...loosening the other stays?? Does the deck flex downward?
What about your furler? Does it seem looser when on close haul? and tighten on a reach?
( I went to look at a M that was for sale locally in the fall on Sat. He must have sold it because its gone. I think I'll have to see this set up to get my head around it.)
Here is the 26M drawing. It looks like it doesn't have a aft stay that goes past the end of the boom!
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Ok, the back stay is kept loose or it will hamper the rotation. The tension on the side stays allow the mast to rotate about 45 degrees right/left of center. The 20 top and 17 lower seems to work good for now and I will crank them down a little at a time if I see to much slack on the lee side.
The forestay/furler is attached to the top hound with a D ring at the center along with the top stays. As the mast turns, the D ring allows the stays to stay centered moving very little if at all.
I will setup the rig in my driveway and take video this weekend. The D ring is not in the pictures.
Hope this helps for now. This is "Way Cool".
The forestay/furler is attached to the top hound with a D ring at the center along with the top stays. As the mast turns, the D ring allows the stays to stay centered moving very little if at all.
I will setup the rig in my driveway and take video this weekend. The D ring is not in the pictures.
Hope this helps for now. This is "Way Cool".
Bob are you saying that you only have 20 and 17 lbs. of tension in the shrouds? If so is that all that the M's run for tension. We have like 300 if I remember right.
Did you put toggles on the forestay? I'll be looking forward to the video,
Sum
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Im liking the idea of a rotating mast - and also like the idea of keeping the stock mast that comes with the S or D (easy to set up...). If its just changing the two parts shown, could be on my list..
However, one thing to consider. The M doesnt have a back stay but it also uses a much beefier mast. I think the classic mast is something like 3.5 inch front to back, the M mast is about 5 inches front to back.
The larger mast is probably better for the benifits of rotation but it also may be what allows no backstay to be used? I think the M also moved the stays back a little to also not need the back stay.
I think M owners have put on back stays with some sort of rotation at the top of the mast... The back stay may still be important with the smaller mast used on the D and S???
However, one thing to consider. The M doesnt have a back stay but it also uses a much beefier mast. I think the classic mast is something like 3.5 inch front to back, the M mast is about 5 inches front to back.
The larger mast is probably better for the benifits of rotation but it also may be what allows no backstay to be used? I think the M also moved the stays back a little to also not need the back stay.
I think M owners have put on back stays with some sort of rotation at the top of the mast... The back stay may still be important with the smaller mast used on the D and S???
Sum - Yup...I have the stock D rings like the M PDF file shows. Check it out with a free download of the pdF.
Walt - Right, the Mast on the M is bigger, stays are farther back and no back stay. Mike at MacGregor said to just leave the back stay a little loose , not hamper the rotation but still be there for some support.
Using the stock mast and adjusting the stays, cutting required, and using the same holes is one option. I went with the new holes higher up so as to not cut the wires $$$$$$$. I had to extend the forestay and backstays doing this.
Now, when I have the extra cash, I will get a new mast from MacGregor, cut it to match the stock D mast (two extra feet is tooooo much power and a new sail). Maybe a new stock sail also.
I think this mod will fit most pocket books and be well worth it.
Walt - Right, the Mast on the M is bigger, stays are farther back and no back stay. Mike at MacGregor said to just leave the back stay a little loose , not hamper the rotation but still be there for some support.
Using the stock mast and adjusting the stays, cutting required, and using the same holes is one option. I went with the new holes higher up so as to not cut the wires $$$$$$$. I had to extend the forestay and backstays doing this.
Now, when I have the extra cash, I will get a new mast from MacGregor, cut it to match the stock D mast (two extra feet is tooooo much power and a new sail). Maybe a new stock sail also.
I think this mod will fit most pocket books and be well worth it.
Bob, was there any advice about the sail - can you use your original classic sail if you were to continue using your classic mast but with the rotation? I think the rotating mast sails are cut a little different but wonder how much this matters? Im wondering this since my main is fairly new but is designed for a fixed mast.
Good question...I will ask Mike... I am not a racer. Thinking that the stock sail will more efficient with the mast rotating.
The experts can comment in on this, please.
There is such a thing as Running Backstays that can be used or substituted for regular backstay.
I would caution against assuming that a taller mast is inappropriate. There is not a world of difference between the X & M yet the M carries a taller mast. Suggesting the classic cannot carry a taller mast is simply underselling it, you don't really know until you try it. A person can still use the taller mast with the shorter sail and still maintain the option to test a taller sail, you never know.
Piviot points??
Ok I understand the spreader bar hinge, and the bolt at the bottom of the mast, and the theory of the D rings all as pivot points.
I don't get how why they are on different axis. Ie. Not all lined up. This configuration will make the mast bend and disfigure the shape of the main. Won't it? see pic...
Ok I understand the spreader bar hinge, and the bolt at the bottom of the mast, and the theory of the D rings all as pivot points.
I don't get how why they are on different axis. Ie. Not all lined up. This configuration will make the mast bend and disfigure the shape of the main. Won't it? see pic...
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Mast shroud tension?
I cant get how we don't see complaints form the M owners about there masts flopping all over. I mean look at the manual. pg 6,8,9. There is got to be a 7/16 gap between the bottom plate of the mast and the top of the rotating base plate. How would the force of the wind affect the mast moving when tacking? It must make the shrouds on one side loose then tighten.
I cant get how we don't see complaints form the M owners about there masts flopping all over. I mean look at the manual. pg 6,8,9. There is got to be a 7/16 gap between the bottom plate of the mast and the top of the rotating base plate. How would the force of the wind affect the mast moving when tacking? It must make the shrouds on one side loose then tighten.
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I'm heading to the lake on Sat. I'll take a look at one if I can find one in the yard.
I went to ware I knew there was one for sale last Sat. He must have sold it..
You guys have been a heck of a great help! I am going to make the mast on my 26D rotate. (I think on one axis if I can.) Probably next fall. This summer the plan is get out on the water and try to remember how to sail. Oh, Fun. Can't forget the fun!
I went to ware I knew there was one for sale last Sat. He must have sold it..
You guys have been a heck of a great help! I am going to make the mast on my 26D rotate. (I think on one axis if I can.) Probably next fall. This summer the plan is get out on the water and try to remember how to sail. Oh, Fun. Can't forget the fun!
Sumner - I missed your question on the tention for the stays. Right now I think I am at 20 and 17 but I noticed that the lee stays were a little slack yesterday on the big gusts. I will crank them down some more for the next trip.
I just got 4 new turnbuckles to replace the old ones. The new thrust bearings should be here in the next few days.
It was real cool to watch the mast rotate as I tacked and the shape of the sail looked great. Not having to mess with the furler was a real treat also.
I just got 4 new turnbuckles to replace the old ones. The new thrust bearings should be here in the next few days.
It was real cool to watch the mast rotate as I tacked and the shape of the sail looked great. Not having to mess with the furler was a real treat also.
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