How to attach sail slugs when sail has double grommets?

[scotsman60]

I have a Catalina 30 Mk III with a fully battened main.

I'm haivng trouble getting the main up and tensioned so I chekced the sail slugs and they are badly worn - so I plan to replace them.

The sail has grommets on the luff for attachment of the slugs - but these actually are in pairs. Each pair is about 26" or so apart with the grommets in a pair being about 3 or 4 inches apart.

All of the info I can find on the web about attaching slugs shows them being attached to a single grommet, with a pretty simple loop of webbing, secured by stitching.

Can anyone provide info on how the slugs should be attached to pairs of grommets? The current arrangement seems to put quite a bit oif twist into each slug - so I'm not sure I really want to copy that approach.

Note that the grommet pairs are on either side (above and below) each batten, but they're also there even when there is not batten.

Do I need to use both even for the intermediates?

Any advice will be gratefully received.....

NOTE : I have ordered the Allslip slugs from Bainbridge - they claim to be lower friction and they seem longer than the existinhg ones so I'm hoiping that'll help when I eventually get them onw. Of course, I'll be cleaning and lubing the track too, as per many of the threads on here.


Thanx in advance,


Doug

 

[RichH]

What you probably have is the slugs on the bottom half (or at least the areas of the sail that are reefed) arranged and attached to 'jack lines'. A jack line / slug system allows the sail to become 'loosened' from the mast/slugs by letting the jackline go slack 'below' the reefing points/cringles. This arrangement allows the slugs to stack-up tightly when reefing, also allows the slugs to be 'loosened' from the sail also for reefing 'neatness'.

Such a jackline system has two grommets and one 'bale' per grommet which attaches the jackline .... with a single slug between the two grommets/bales also attached to the jackline .... usually only for the first reef and rarely for the 2nd and 3rd reefs.

If this isnt clear lemme know and I will reply with a sketch of a slug/jackline system.

 

[NC-C320]

Assuming that the double gromments are at all slide positions (i.e. not for jack line, which would normally be the bottom two or three slide positions), simply use two webbing straps to each slide: one webb strap to lower gromment, one webb strap to upper gromment so that slide becomes centered between the two gromments. This arrangement distributes the load better to the sail and might (because of the webbing angles to slide) make hoisting and lowering the sail easier.

 

[Steve Dion]

I am not familiar with your setup, but I would suggest that you ONLY use a metal slug for the top 2 positions and at the bottom position. This is a weak point when you use these plastic/nylon slugs.

They (Bainbridge) also makes some slugs that are metal that are easy slide too.

 

[scotsman60]

Rich,

Thanx for your response, however this is not a jack line system - all of the slugs are attached this way apart from the very top one which is a single and uses a bronze (at least metal) slide.


Doug

What you probably have is the slugs on the bottom half (or at least the areas of the sail that are reefed) arranged and attached to 'jack lines'. A jack line / slug system allows the sail to become 'loosened' from the mast/slugs by letting the jackline go slack 'below' the reefing points/cringles. This arrangement allows the slugs to stack-up tightly when reefing, also allows the slugs to be 'loosened' from the sail also for reefing 'neatness'.

Such a jackline system has two grommets and one 'bale' per grommet which attaches the jackline .... with a single slug between the two grommets/bales also attached to the jackline .... usually only for the first reef and rarely for the 2nd and 3rd reefs.

If this isnt clear lemme know and I will reply with a sketch of a slug/jackline system.

 

[scotsman60]

Thanx NC,


This is a good suggestion - makes sense to me.

The only advantage i see in the current arrangement, which has a single web strap that runs between the two grommets and the slug, is that when it's tight, it does tend to draw the luff of the sail tight to the slug.

Two separate webs migh result in more of a gap?

Any thoughts on this?


Doug

Assuming that the double gromments are at all slide positions (i.e. not for jack line, which would normally be the bottom two or three slide positions), simply use two webbing straps to each slide: one webb strap to lower gromment, one webb strap to upper gromment so that slide becomes centered between the two gromments. This arrangement distributes the load better to the sail and might (because of the webbing angles to slide) make hoisting and lowering the sail easier.

 

[scotsman60]

Stev,

Yes - i plan to use metal slugs at the top - this is what the current setup has.

Currently the bottom slug is plastic and this doesn't seem to be an issue - of course that may be because i can hardly get any tension there because of the aforementioned problesm.......

Doug

I am not familiar with your setup, but I would suggest that you ONLY use a metal slug for the top 2 positions and at the bottom position. This is a weak point when you use these plastic/nylon slugs.

They (Bainbridge) also makes some slugs that are metal that are easy slide too.

 

[rardiH36]

Free Video Exactly How To Do It

This link from Sailrite.com is to a free video showing exactly how to do it for double grommets pairs on a full batten main sail.

http://www.sailrite.com/Slugs-for-Full-Length-Batten-w-Webbing-and-Grommets-Video

One piece of strapping is used that is wrapped between each grommet and then through the slug. This method helps the sail lay correctly when doused.

I have a Catalina full batten main sail on my Hunter 36. Upon purchasing second hand, I needed to replace all the slugs to convert from the Catalina mast track size to the size on my Hunter. I saved some time by using the double grommet pairs only at the end of each batten, where the stress is quite strong. For the non-batten slugs, I used only one of the two grommets. This has been working fine for two years now with many, many days of +25 kts winds on the central SF Bay.

 

[scotsman60]

Rardi,


Many thanks!!!!

I knew there had t be something out there on the web but I wasn't able to find it myself......

This looks just like the way it's done currently so I think I'll just go the same way.

If I still have problems after installing the ne slugs, cleaning and lubing the track, then I'll think about going to Battslides or similar.

I'm hoping that the new slugs will do it though.....

Many thanks to all who responded - this is my first post and I'm very grateful for the advice given.


Doug

This link from Sailrite.com is to a free video showing exactly how to do it for double grommets pairs on a full batten main sail.

http://www.sailrite.com/Slugs-for-Full-Length-Batten-w-Webbing-and-Grommets-Video

One piece of strapping is used that is wrapped between each grommet and then through the slug. This method helps the sail lay correctly when doused.

I have a Catalina full batten main sail on my Hunter 36. Upon purchasing second hand, I needed to replace all the slugs to convert from the Catalina mast track size to the size on my Hunter. I saved some time by using the double grommet pairs only at the end of each batten, where the stress is quite strong. For the non-batten slugs, I used only one of the two grommets. This has been working fine for two years now with many, many days of +25 kts winds on the central SF Bay.

 

[COOL]

The two grommet arrangement is common on the
Catalina factory built sails. There is no benefit, and
several drawbacks.
I generally just web the slide to one or the other
grommet in the typical method.
If your slides are sticking, try cleaning the mast
track as well as you can. Then spray silcone on
each slide as you hoist the sail.

 

[RAD]

Try a product called sailkote......works great,I just got a new full batten main that wouldn't come down without my assistance but after a shot of this stuff while hoisting and lowering a few times did the trick and it shut up that shriek when sliding the hatch

http://www.mclubemarine.com/

 

[Ross]

Other than the fact that your sail slugs are worn is there a problem with the method of attachment? If not then just put them back on they way the sailmaker attached them when he/she made the sail.

 

[rardiH36]

Re the original reason for slug attachment question -- a hard to raise full battened main sail. It just ocurred to me that this came up several months ago. Here's a link to the thread. Besides sailkote and making sure that the track is clean, check that the boom is raised to at least horizontal or above with either the topping lift or rigid boom vang. If the boom is hanging down, it takes a lot of effort to get the sail up and also the slugs can hang up when dousing:

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=121533

 

[scotsman60]

Thanx,

I'm going to clean the mast track, replace the worn slides with new Allslips and lube with Sailkote. I tried Sailkote on the existting slidies but without cleaning with no lukc but I'm hoping the above three steps will solve my problem.

Doug

 

[scotsman60]

Ross,

This is what I plan to do. Since I didnlot buy the boat new I wasn't sure that the slugs had been attached correctly.

From the Sailrite video referneced above i can now see that they were corrrectly installed so I'm just going to renew the slugs, using better quality ones, and the recommended attachement method.

Thanx,


Doug

Other than the fact that your sail slugs are worn is there a problem with the method of attachment? If not then just put them back on they way the sailmaker attached them when he/she made the sail.

 

[scotsman60]

Rardi,

I'll give this a try tomorrow. It'll be next week before I replace the slugs, clean an lube the track so I'll be able to find out if adjusting the bom helps. I think my boom is pretty close to level anyway - I have a dodger and I keep the boom high to stop the sail cover rubbing when the boat's on the mooring, but I'll check anyway.


Doug

Re the original reason for slug attachment question -- a hard to raise full battened main sail. It just ocurred to me that this came up several months ago. Here's a link to the thread. Besides sailkote and making sure that the track is clean, check that the boom is raised to at least horizontal or above with either the topping lift or rigid boom vang. If the boom is hanging down, it takes a lot of effort to get the sail up and also the slugs can hang up when dousing:

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=121533

 

[rardiH36]

Hi Doug:

Re your" ".... I'll give this a try tomorrow ..."

Please post your result. Might be of interest for some on the forum, including me.

This probably isn't the cause of your difficulties, but seems to me that many sail hoisting issues (full battened sail or not) might be related to the boom not being supported in an "upward" position to begin with. Rather than tensioning the luff, this (hanging boom condition) causes the mainsail halyard to stress as it must also pull up the end of the boom. Actually, rather than being above horizontal, its maybe more correct to say that the boom should be raised up enough so that that there is absolutely no tension on the leach when the sail is hoisted full up. Then the topping lift can be released. Depending on the cut of the sail, this means the topping lift or the rigid boom vang might need to position the boom even well above horizontal. For example, when I release the topping lift for the mainsail that originally came with my boat, the boom end is a good 1.5 feet lower than when I release the topping lift with the Catalina full battened mainsail. (One of the reasons that I like the Catalina main sail is because the boom end is above my head when I an standing in the cockpit. The boom end for the original Hunter sail is at a level that corresponds to right in the center of my head. If, or more likely when I make a mistake and the boom swings unexpectedly, I much prefer it passes by above my head.)

The luff sail slugs that I have been using for at least 200 raisings/dousings over the last couple of years are "hand-me-downs" that I purchased from a local sail loft. They certainly have visible wear. But my sail hoists up (by hand all the way to the top) and douses down without any problem.

Within the thread that I linked to, the poster had already invested in higher tech solutions, but still had problems until he started to play with the boom height. So let us know your outcome!

 

[scotsman60]

Rasing the boom with the topping lift eased the sail hoisting!!!!

Rardi,

I can confirm that lifting the boom with the topping lift to remove mainsail leech tensio did in fact make raising the main much easier!!!!!

In fact I only raised the main twice last weekend, both times in the dark for night sailing, so I couldn't see everything that was going on, but it was clear that I could raise th mainsail all the way to the top by hand, and then tension using the winch much easier than any time before.

Your clarification is spot on in my opinion. The boom must be rigged so that no leech tension is generated during the hoisting of the main, otherwise all of the hoisting effort goes in to tensionig the leech. I think this is an issue with the Catalin 30 main due to the way that it's cut - to keep the boom high (above dodger and heads) when the topping lift iis removed.

I had the same situation as you on previous bot - a Peterson 30 1/2 ton - where the boom was arround shoulder/head heiht when supported by the mainsail only. The Catalina approach results in a much safer arrangement on board, particulalry whene there are inexperienced sailors on board.....

I still plan to replace the slugs with the new low friction Baindbridge items - I already bought them and they are significantly longer (less likley to jam in the track) and of a better design and material than the current ones. I'll also clean and lube the track too. I plan to do this in a few weeks time, most likely at the same time that I replace all of the traveller and mainsheet blocks.

Next time I'm up the mast I may also install a ball bearing masthead sheave for the main halyard. After that I'll likley need to recondition or replace the mast exit sheaves and deck organizers, but that's not urgent.

Thanx for the idea!!!!! It made a huge difference!!!!


Doug

Hi Doug:

Re your" ".... I'll give this a try tomorrow ..."

Please post your result. Might be of interest for some on the forum, including me.

This probably isn't the cause of your difficulties, but seems to me that many sail hoisting issues (full battened sail or not) might be related to the boom not being supported in an "upward" position to begin with. Rather than tensioning the luff, this (hanging boom condition) causes the mainsail halyard to stress as it must also pull up the end of the boom. Actually, rather than being above horizontal, its maybe more correct to say that the boom should be raised up enough so that that there is absolutely no tension on the leach when the sail is hoisted full up. Then the topping lift can be released. Depending on the cut of the sail, this means the topping lift or the rigid boom vang might need to position the boom even well above horizontal. For example, when I release the topping lift for the mainsail that originally came with my boat, the boom end is a good 1.5 feet lower than when I release the topping lift with the Catalina full battened mainsail. (One of the reasons that I like the Catalina main sail is because the boom end is above my head when I an standing in the cockpit. The boom end for the original Hunter sail is at a level that corresponds to right in the center of my head. If, or more likely when I make a mistake and the boom swings unexpectedly, I much prefer it passes by above my head.)

The luff sail slugs that I have been using for at least 200 raisings/dousings over the last couple of years are "hand-me-downs" that I purchased from a local sail loft. They certainly have visible wear. But my sail hoists up (by hand all the way to the top) and douses down without any problem.

Within the thread that I linked to, the poster had already invested in higher tech solutions, but still had problems until he started to play with the boom height. So let us know your outcome!

 

[XPatriot]

A question for the masses....how do you clean the slide prior to lubing?

Preferably a technique that does not require going up the mast.

Thanks.

 

[COOL]

You can clean the slides by dropping them out of the mast exit,
and wiping them off with a rag. Spray each of them with a dry
silicone spray as you hoist the sail. If the slides have have a
lot of 'crud' on them when they come back down, you can
repeat the process, or you may need to clean the mast
track itself. If you have round internal slides, you can have
a short piece of 'boltrope' made up with grommets at either
end. You can then spray this liberally with silicone spray
and hoist with a halyard and retreive with a tag line.
If you have internal flat slides, you can use a spare
slide to clean the mast groove the same way. It is sometimes
possible to wrap the slide in a light cloth and still hoist it
inside the mast groove. Never use any type of grease
on the luffslides, as dirt will cling to it.