How do you remove hard plastic headliner in head on 2009 H36

[tfox2069]

I own a 2009 H36 and want to add a clutch to the port side. The clutch is just to port of the interior wall in the sink room, and the headliner is hard plastic, not vinyl like elsewhere in the boat (makes sense - you want it to be impenetrable to moisture). Anyone know how to remove that plastic headliner to get to the underside of the triple clutch that was factory installed?

 

[Whatfiero1]

It's my understanding that the clutch is bolted to a aluminum plate molded into the fiberglass cabin top. If your trying to remove clutch to replace with larger one try get 1 bolt out and see if you can confirm a threaded plate then just drill and thread new holes

 

[seadaddler]

I am thinking the plastic liner out ward shape maybe for adding a electric winch but my
guess and it looks like just caulking around edges but just another guess.
My 2007 H-36 has the same plastic molded head liner.
Nick

 

[tfox2069]

Thanks for the responses. Some digging turned up likely confirmation that there's indeed an aluminum backing plate (and it appears Hunter has been doing this for many years, back into the late 90s at least). So I have every reason to suspect its there. But it appears you have to drill thru that into the cabin top, tap the aluminum plate, and then through bolt the clutch. The following post from Kerbs from this thread appears to confirm:

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/i...deck-hardware-hunter-33-5.149177/#post-995833

Post:
"I spoke with a guy at Hunter customer service...he said after the headliner is removed, must drill holes for the stainless steel 3"x1/4" machine bolts using the clutch template...then use a "420 tap" to set bolt threads into alluminum plate...still not sure if I'm going to attempt this myself or turn the job over to the Norton's Marine service folks here in Deltaville when I put the boat on the hard for the winter...thanks again for the help."

If I can figure out how to remove the hard plastic headliner I think this will be an easy job, but as with so many things, just getting to it is harder than the job itself. I see a few screw covers on the vertical bulkhead, but none on the ceiling, only caulking. I'd hate to start that job, cutting all the caulking, pulling screws, if I didn't know that was the right path. I don't really want to create a lot of work I have to fix going down the wrong path. I've poked thru a lot of documentation in the Hunter library on various boats close to the 36, and nothing yet on how the head plastic cladding was installed. Will keep digging. Alternately I can close my eyes, write a check, and hope the folks at Herrington Harbor North make it look easy, and like things were never taken apart. But that's $$$$.

EDIT: I've engaged the Hunter 1 on 1 service to see what they say. I'll pass on what I learn.

 

[HMT2]

Thanks for the responses. Some digging turned up likely confirmation that there's indeed an aluminum backing plate (and it appears Hunter has been doing this for many years, back into the late 90s at least). So I have every reason to suspect its there. But it appears you have to drill thru that into the cabin top, tap the aluminum plate, and then through bolt the clutch. The following post from Kerbs from this thread appears to confirm:

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/i...deck-hardware-hunter-33-5.149177/#post-995833

Post:
"I spoke with a guy at Hunter customer service...he said after the headliner is removed, must drill holes for the stainless steel 3"x1/4" machine bolts using the clutch template...then use a "420 tap" to set bolt threads into alluminum plate...still not sure if I'm going to attempt this myself or turn the job over to the Norton's Marine service folks here in Deltaville when I put the boat on the hard for the winter...thanks again for the help."

If I can figure out how to remove the hard plastic headliner I think this will be an easy job, but as with so many things, just getting to it is harder than the job itself. I see a few screw covers on the vertical bulkhead, but none on the ceiling, only caulking. I'd hate to start that job, cutting all the caulking, pulling screws, if I didn't know that was the right path. I don't really want to create a lot of work I have to fix going down the wrong path. I've poked thru a lot of documentation in the Hunter library on various boats close to the 36, and nothing yet on how the head plastic cladding was installed. Will keep digging. Alternately I can close my eyes, write a check, and hope the folks at Herrington Harbor North make it look easy, and like things were never taken apart. But that's $$$$.

EDIT: I've engaged the Hunter 1 on 1 service to see what they say. I'll pass on what I learn.

Please update us. I am interested in how the one to one service works!

 

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[jeff356]

TF, I have a Hunter 2003 356 which is very similar to you 36 and did the update on both port and starboard sides adding a 4th clutch to the side of the triple clutches, and you can see the raised up plate area that it was set up for.
The aluminum plates are glassed into the deck and easy to drill and tap out not touching the interior headliner, not an expensive or hard job to do, trust me way easier than drilling the hole for the windlass. You can pick up the matching (at my time) spinlock single clutch and and block for the mast plate and it is in place.
Wanted my spinnaker halyard and boom vang lines to come back to the cockpit so I would not have to go on deck if I wanted better control in rough weather. Well worth the little time and money to make it happen.
Jeff

 

[tfox2069]

So, Jeff356, I'm interested in your experience here. My research seems to indicate the factory through bolted the triple clutches on our cabin top. It sounds like you drilled and tapped just into the aluminum backing plate, and didn't through bolt. A couple of questions for you:
- How thick is that backing plate (roughly)? I'm trying to judge how much threading it will be holding (e.g. 1/16", beefier than that, etc)
- Have you noticed any wobbliness with the spinnaker clutch over time that's just drilled into the aluminum backing plate?
- When you installed it, did you drill a pilot hole, tap, and then install the clutch?
- Did you seal the hole, and if so, how? I'm used to Tom Casey's recommendation to drill, evacuate coring, epoxy, then drill through the epoxy to prevent moisture at the penetration site. Maybe this isn't even needed if the backing plate is right under the fiberglass top.

Sorry if that's a lot of questions - really appreciate your chiming in and your previous experience with this.

 

[jeff356]

From memory the aluminum plates are 1/4" thick and can be threaded easily.
First I positioned the clutch and drilled a smaller pilot hole where the final screws will go.
Drilled out the holes to the correct size to be tapped, and tapped the threads.
Use a bigger drill bit to countersink the hole in the fiberglass to make sure it seals well.
Placed Butyl tape on the clutch before mounting, with a small circle around the base not touching the screw as it will fill in the gap as tighten and not gum up the threads and prevent you from tightening it.
It is mounted tight with no movement just like the original install.
Jeff

 

[tfox2069]

I would love for that to be the solution here. Much simpler than ripping the sink room overhead apart to thru bolt it. Appreciate the detail - very helpful. I'm talking with the Hunter 1 on 1 tomorrow afternoon and will run this by them as my preferred solution and see what they say. I'll post an update.

 

[tfox2069]

UPDATE: Talked with Hunter 1 to 1 this afternoon. They’re pretty busy with calls currently - shocker . Talked with Al, apparently the owner of SBO. Very helpful. Knew exactly what I needed to do, gave me three ways to do it, and if I chose to do a non-destructive thru bolt he offered to send me plugs for the plastic headliner that I could put in 1” holes to look nice and neat.

What I learned:

Method 1 - Drill and tap clutch screws into the glassed-in aluminum deck plate as Jeff356 laid out. Only difference was he didn’t recommend butyl, but Dow 795 White sealant, which is what the factory used. There’s no core in that area

Method 2 - Since a clutch is a fitting which sees stress, like a cleat, he said the factory would normally thru bolt it. However, there’s no getting the plastic cladding off the ceiling of the sink room easily or non-destructively due to the way the boat is manufactured. Instead, try to best determine where the screws are in the overhead and if they’re not in a rounded area, do the following: Drill and tap the aluminum plate, and then drill a SMALL pilot hole with a long bit all the way thru the cabin top and shower overhead to ensure the intrusion is in a flat spot. If not, stop, and install clutch into aluminum plate and plug the small hole. If in a flat spot, drill 1” holes around the small holes in the sink room ceiling penetrations, use those neat 1” holes to thru bolt the clutch, then use the push-in plugs Al has to neatly cover the 1” ceiling holes.

Last resort: Tear it up if you can’t drill thru flat spots and feel you MUST thru bolt, and Al can talk someone thru restoring a ceiling. Which sounds expensive. And you’d want to talk to Al before destroying anything.

I’m trying the least destructive way first. Thanks for breaking that ground and sharing Jeff356. And thanks to Al for talking me thru it. I’d definitely use their Hunter 1 to 1 service again.

UPDATE:
Successfully drilled, tapped and bolted the clutch to the port side without thru bolting. The plate seems pretty substantial, and for a light air spinnaker I feel certain it'll be plenty strong. I did use butyl, since I couldn't find Dow 795 White.

One note though, I'm still going to have to cut and resplice my endless main furling line so I can move it to the two most inboard clutches, since the spinnaker halyard will have to go on the outboard port clutch, due to the relative positions of the furling line and jib halyard. Both of those lines will have to be inboard of the spinnaker halyard.

It seems the factory almost centered the triple clutch, which really doesn't do an owner any favors if you want to add a clutch. It would've made more sense for the factory to mount the triple clutch as inboard as possible, leaving an outboard position for the spinnaker halyard clutch, but there wasn't enough room to do so, so I had to mount it inboard of the triple clutch.