How do you fold a sail on the boat :(

[rgranger]

I'm still working on a decent main reefing system. .

On my mac 22 I had a small block on the end of the boom with a sail hook .... I'd lower the main to the reef tack, secure that in the sailhook at the goosenec, then I'd run the sailhook on the end of the boom to the reef clew, and simply haul that in. Done...

I'm thinking something like that would work on the Mac 25.

 

[RussC]

Ya, but I refuse to do things the simple way. even if it works. I'm re-visiting the boom roller system and doing some modifications as we speak.

 

[justsomeguy]

Ya, but I refuse to do things the simple way. even if it works.

Consider yourself lucky, RussC!

That's the foresail of a 53 foot Spencer. How would Trump put it? "Yuge"?

 

[RussC]

If I had a 53 footer I could walk onboard on one side of our lake and off on the other shore without moving the boat.



This started out as an easier way to roll the sail onto the boom for trailering…. and then halfway through the project a modification at the other end of the boom occurred to me that might also make reefing with the existing Mac boom roller into a worthwhile system . Oh well, there's no down side to the changes made on the rear of the boom so I finished the project anyway. I need to order some stainless for the other project, so that may be a wile yet.

 

[justsomeguy]

a modification at the other end of the boom occurred to me that might also make reefing with the existing Mac boom roller into a worthwhile system .

No, it wouldn't be worthwhile. It's a terrible system, and I don't recommend it.

Flame on, people!

 

[RussC]

No, it wouldn't be worthwhile. It's a terrible system, and I don't recommend it.

Flame on, people!

No flames from this direction. But can you be a bit more specific about what you felt makes it a terrible system?

 

[justsomeguy]

No flames from this direction. But can you be a bit more specific about what you felt makes it a terrible system?

[big sigh] I felt that the system compromises the simplicity of a boom vang's operation, for one. It also requires you to move to the mast to lock/unlock the boom's rotational ability, for two.

IOW, it adds an un-needed complexity to what should be a "zip-boom-bah" deal.

 

[BudGates]

No flames from this direction. But can you be a bit more specific about what you felt makes it a terrible system?

I had roller reefing on my V-222 and hated it. It was quite cumbersome and difficult to work with. That's not what you want when you get caught in a blow. Reefing needs to be quick and easy.

Macgregor even realized it was a poor system and abandoned it when they went to the Mac 26.

 

[rgranger]

RussC

I think that would make rolling up your sail much easier. So easy is always good.... And the roller furled boom did work very well for me when I wanted to let sail OUT. But I never could comfortably wrestle the sail onto the boom during a big blow. I'd add a simple slab reef system to the end of the boom as well. Then you have all of your bases covered.

Do you have reef points in your sail? If not then all of my talk about slab reefing is pointless and you are stuck with the roller boom... and what you just did would make it marginally easier to take in sail during a heavy blow. But if you do have reef points, a simple cheek block with a snap hook at the end of boom would be all you need to set up a simple slab reef system. Then add a sail hook at the tack end of the boom.

 

[RussC]

The biggest issue I had, the one time I tried the Mac roller boom reefing, was that it was so cumbersome to rotate the boom/sail under load without anything to grip it with. using the winch handle on the end would solve that problem for reefing also, but a way to lock and unlock the rotation, without 12' arms, then becomes an issue. A better way to lock/unlock the boom than that goofy thumbscrew would be a start, and I'll be working on that, as well as a way to make turning the boom from the mast end easier at the same time. I had installed a sail hook (horn) and played with the more traditional slab system last week at the lake, and it worked ok, but if I'm going to roll the sail for transport anyway, why not retain a nice smooth boom and improve the existing roller reefing system. I understand that a lot of folks don't have the ability to design and fabricate, but I've done it all my life and it's what makes my world turn. often as not my creations end up less than I'd hoped for, but there are also many things that I've built that put a huge smile on my face every time I use them.
I do have double reef points in my new sail, so I always have the option to use a traditional slab system, but if wooden hulls and square sails were really better we'd be sailing with those also.

 

[RussC]

[big sigh] I felt that the system compromises the simplicity of a boom vang's operation, for one. It also requires you to move to the mast to lock/unlock the boom's rotational ability, for two.

IOW, it adds an un-needed complexity to what should be a "zip-boom-bah" deal.

I'd agree that the boom vang is an issue. I don't have one at the moment, but it would be nice to have the option. Not sure about the comment of having to be near the mast. I'd have to be near the mast to deal with sail slugs and to hook the horn anyway…….. As to the "complexity"…. ya totally lost me on that one .
It's really a matter of what works for the individual I guess. 6 of one or half-dozen of the other.

 

[dscribner]

Not if you flake and fold on the boom

My battens are at such an angle that flaking the sail properly is problematic at best. We get it done but it is messy. Pulling into a harbor, I make sure to break out the sail cover so no other sailors will throw rocks or beer bottles at me as I pass by, head hung low.

 

[rgranger]

Let us know how it works.... it only sucks until it doesn't.... you might have just made the mod. that revives this type of reefing system. One suggestion I can add to your new boom roller would be to slice a 6" piece of foam pipe insulation and zip-tie that to your winch handle. I can totally see you at the end of your boom, trying to roll that up while the wind is blowing and the boom end thrashing... and plop.... there goes a $50 winch handle in the brink..

I've zip tie a piece of foam "swim noodle" to my winch handle and I have had it save my handle once so far. So I for me (anyways) it is a good idea.

Since you like tinkering....regarding the thumb screw... what if you ran a small piece of rod the entire length of the boom as a slide hasp.

Basically a really long version of this....

with the user end near your new boom winch you just made and the termination end at the gooseneck. You could open the hasp to turn the boom..... crank and then slip the hasp to hold. You still have the issue of raising and lowering the main halyard but you have that same issue with slab reefing as well.

 

[rgranger]

.... Pulling into a harbor, I make sure to break out the sail cover .....

My dad always tells me that the difference between a good carpenter and a great carpenter is the fact that a great carpenter knows how to hide his mistakes..... you sir! are a great sailor.

 

[justsomeguy]

I'd agree that the boom vang is an issue. I don't have one at the moment, but it would be nice to have the option. Not sure about the comment of having to be near the mast. I'd have to be near the mast to deal with sail slugs and to hook the horn anyway…….. As to the "complexity"…. ya totally lost me on that one .
It's really a matter of what works for the individual I guess. 6 of one or half-dozen of the other.

The vang is really nice for downwind sailing, keeping the boom from rising up enough to whack the backstay during that unintended gybe that will happen.
You could look into the fabrication/installation of a mast gate to retain your slugs, something I haven't done, nor plan to do on this boat. I do move to the mast when reefing to drop the slug stopper from just above the slug gate to just below the gate, then it's right back to the cockpit where everything else I need is led.
As for what works for the individual, that's a factor that also includes "where you sail". I don't know about your sailing grounds other than "Oregon lakes", but in the Sea of Cortez, besides the occasional winds, there are also waves and swells pitching your boat, making the trip to the mast that much more exciting.
The more you can do from the relative safety of the cockpit, the better, IMO.

 

[dscribner]

Actually . . . I'm a pretty good carpenter too! Or, used to be anyway. You'll love this one. Note the diagonal slash in the rear portlight, almost obscured by the lifeline stanchion. I got some scrap acrylic from work and it was too short. I had to get the job done so we could go out so I overlapped two pieces with a diagonal cut, adhering them with VHB tape. You know those side sliders on pickup truck caps? Looks like the same thing. People have actually asked me if they open! Make an error look like your own fashion statement!

DSCN0092

• dscribner
• Feb 20, 2012

 

[RussC]

[QUOTE="dscribner, post: 1293359, member: 80358" Make an error look like your own fashion statement!

[/QUOTE]

I've never done that.

 

[RussC]

Let us know how it works.... it only sucks until it doesn't.... you might have just made the mod. that revives this type of reefing system.

I've done similar in the hot rod world a couple times over the years. several of my creations have actually become "the norm"

One suggestion I can add to your new boom roller would be to slice a 6" piece of foam pipe insulation and zip-tie that to your winch handle.

The thought crossed my mind, but I doubted it would provided the needed flotation. Now I have to fill a bucket of water and try it for myself. thanks for the tip

Since you like tinkering....regarding the thumb screw... what if you ran a small piece of rod the entire length of the boom as a slide hasp.

The idea has been contemplated and I really like the concept, but I still need to be at the mast anyway to deal with slugs and halyards etc. the idea isn't off the table completely just yet however.

Thanks for the constructive input!! Over the years I've found that the frequent "that's a terrible idea" and "that won't work" folks do provide me with very important incentive to accomplish my goals, however the guy that really thinks it through with an open mind, like yourself, is still a welcome breath of fresh air

 

[RussC]

The vang is really nice for downwind sailing, keeping the boom from rising up enough to whack the backstay during that unintended gybe that will happen.
You could look into the fabrication/installation of a mast gate to retain your slugs, something I haven't done, nor plan to do on this boat. I do move to the mast when reefing to drop the slug stopper from just above the slug gate to just below the gate, then it's right back to the cockpit where everything else I need is led.
As for what works for the individual, that's a factor that also includes "where you sail". I don't know about your sailing grounds other than "Oregon lakes", but in the Sea of Cortez, besides the occasional winds, there are also waves and swells pitching your boat, making the trip to the mast that much more exciting.
The more you can do from the relative safety of the cockpit, the better, IMO.

Unfortunately the lower 2-3 mast slugs would have to come out of the mast for a boom roller reef system. that is a down side to the concept.
I've been looking at the mast gate idea just an hour or so ago anyway however .
And so true about "where you sail". my simple answer is "I don't do salt" . I inherited my fathers affliction of getting seasick starting wile walking out on the dock. my dad was sea sick for almost a year in the navy before they transferred him to solid ground in Hawaii. When our lakes get waves over a foot or so, with whitecaps, it's time to head for shore. I know… I accept that I'm a wimp .

 

[justsomeguy]

I accept that I'm a wimp .

I'm a wimp, too. No problem with that.