I was curious to see the different ways (knots) sailors attach their jib sheets to the jib.
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Please weigh in.
How do you attach your jib sheets?
- Thread starter Roy Udwin
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You don't remember this thread in '06?
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=80030&#post416763
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=80030&#post416763
I remember this discussion and when I put on the jib this last spring, I tied one sheet with a bowline and the other with a sheet bend just for grins to see what, if any, difference it made - and then completely forgot about it until last month when we removed the sails and I saw them both.
They both held, never caught on the shrouds and were both a pain to remove.
So much for theoretical arguments...
They both held, never caught on the shrouds and were both a pain to remove.
So much for theoretical arguments...
Jib sheets
I have allways tied my jib sheets with two bowlines. It's simple and nothing to break. The only way I'd have to change this is if the two sheets did not pass thru the jibs clew grommet. I also use the largest diameter lines that will fit thru because I find them easier to handle in the cocpit.
I do see some boats with stainless fittings secured to the clew and then the sheets are tied to it. However, I'm concerned about someone being accidentily hit with one.
I have allways tied my jib sheets with two bowlines. It's simple and nothing to break. The only way I'd have to change this is if the two sheets did not pass thru the jibs clew grommet. I also use the largest diameter lines that will fit thru because I find them easier to handle in the cocpit.
I do see some boats with stainless fittings secured to the clew and then the sheets are tied to it. However, I'm concerned about someone being accidentily hit with one.
No knot... so to speak.
I basically half the sheet... put the loop end of the sheet through the clew of the jib... put both ends of the sheet through loop and pull tight.
I basically half the sheet... put the loop end of the sheet through the clew of the jib... put both ends of the sheet through loop and pull tight.
We do our sheets the same way as Rich. Our jib sheets are one continuous line. We bend the sheet at the midpoint, then pass both ends through. It's simple painless and never a chore to unhitch.
Our jib / genoa is hanked on, and we removed it each time our sailing day is through.
Our jib / genoa is hanked on, and we removed it each time our sailing day is through.
Continuous line
Rich P303 and Ross in Tampa both have the right idea!
Forget the knots, they are a dumb idea, just keep it simple and use one continuous line as Rich and Ross have described. KISS principle.
.
Rich P303 and Ross in Tampa both have the right idea!
Forget the knots, they are a dumb idea, just keep it simple and use one continuous line as Rich and Ross have described. KISS principle.
.
I have used several methods for attaching the sheets. The easiest is shackles. It is quick and simple. It is also dangerous and murder on the gel-coat. The PO of my boat used one line with a lark's head in the center for each hanked on jib. He had sheets for each sail. When I got the boat I removed the lines (with great effort, swearing, and gnashing of teeth) and found the lines were all badly damaged where the knot had been. I had to remove the middle foot of each line and I now use bowlines, switching them end for end when I think of it.
the problem with the '06 discussion...
...is that someone had recommended using a buntline hitch, claiming it was superior to a bowline. I tried it my next time out sailing, only to discover that it would take a full hour to untie the knots at the end of the day.
I'm sticking to bowlines, these days. This gives me the option of using a three-sheet setup where I can run a second sheet to an outboard fairlead in order to barberhaul while reaching.
...is that someone had recommended using a buntline hitch, claiming it was superior to a bowline. I tried it my next time out sailing, only to discover that it would take a full hour to untie the knots at the end of the day.
I'm sticking to bowlines, these days. This gives me the option of using a three-sheet setup where I can run a second sheet to an outboard fairlead in order to barberhaul while reaching.
I prefer..
I prefer either a Cow's Hitch in a single line, or two bowlines or buntlines on separate jib sheets. On certain sail clews I have seen a cows hitch slip so you need to try it for your specific clew but 99+% of the time I have never seen a cows hitch slip. It is also smaller in mass and leaves less of a welt than two bowlines or buntlines.
Cow's Hitch
I don't understand Don's comment on a bowline being tough to get untied? I have been on a commercial fishing boat where we towed another boat over 15 miles and under tremendous loads and the bowline came undone with zero issues or effort. Simply "break the back" and it comes untied..?
What ever you do avoid the use of shackles. The clew is heavy enough to do some damage you don't need to add to it. Those of us who have had the opportunity to be hit by a flailing clew understand this well.
Many racers won't even tie stopper knots to avoid getting whipped. It also speeds up sheet changes from inboard tracks to outboard. If racing, the lightest mass at the clew possible is what is generally, preferred especially in light winds, and this is where a cows hitch will win over the bowline in light air performance. Lighter weight performance sheets will do more but starting with a low mass knot is a good first step..
I prefer either a Cow's Hitch in a single line, or two bowlines or buntlines on separate jib sheets. On certain sail clews I have seen a cows hitch slip so you need to try it for your specific clew but 99+% of the time I have never seen a cows hitch slip. It is also smaller in mass and leaves less of a welt than two bowlines or buntlines.
Cow's Hitch
I don't understand Don's comment on a bowline being tough to get untied? I have been on a commercial fishing boat where we towed another boat over 15 miles and under tremendous loads and the bowline came undone with zero issues or effort. Simply "break the back" and it comes untied..?
What ever you do avoid the use of shackles. The clew is heavy enough to do some damage you don't need to add to it. Those of us who have had the opportunity to be hit by a flailing clew understand this well.
Many racers won't even tie stopper knots to avoid getting whipped. It also speeds up sheet changes from inboard tracks to outboard. If racing, the lightest mass at the clew possible is what is generally, preferred especially in light winds, and this is where a cows hitch will win over the bowline in light air performance. Lighter weight performance sheets will do more but starting with a low mass knot is a good first step..
People have trouble with bowlines
on jib clews because they tie them backwards. If the part of the line that is needed to release the knot is on the inside, it won't come undone. The trick is simple: tie the knot looking away from the clew. Sure, it's "easier" to do it looking toward the clew, but it won't come out.
on jib clews because they tie them backwards. If the part of the line that is needed to release the knot is on the inside, it won't come undone. The trick is simple: tie the knot looking away from the clew. Sure, it's "easier" to do it looking toward the clew, but it won't come out.
Stu...
Thanks,
Paul
Any chance you could post pictures of the two different knots?
Thanks,
Paul
I prefer to 'double' the jib sheet and secure the 'middle' with a 'constrictor knot'. This becomes permanent and can only be released with an axe/knife. Once released/cut into two normal sided sheets, then I use buntlines, as bowlines invariably get snagged on the inner forestay.
On my race boat, I use a clew-iron (multi-holed, heavy metal plate), a swivel shackle, and double block at the clew attachment. This rig is a true deck-sweeper, so the only thing that would be hit would be your ankles, etc.
On my race boat, I use a clew-iron (multi-holed, heavy metal plate), a swivel shackle, and double block at the clew attachment. This rig is a true deck-sweeper, so the only thing that would be hit would be your ankles, etc.
Jib Sheets
I was surprised to read an article in "Good Old Boat" some time ago about the various knots, splices, bends, and other schemes people use to connect their sheets to a headsail. What astounded me most were how elaborate some of these ideas were.
Sometime after I read that article, GOB founders Karen Larson and Jerry Powlas decided to do an article on my boat (Jul/Aug '07). In the course of taking pictures of my boat for the article, we also went for a nice sail. Karen remarked about the fact that I use bowlines to connect my sheets to the furling genoa. We then discussed the article on this subject. She indicated that a number of people had mentioned to her that bowlines will open in a blow. I told her that I have been using bowlines for over 30 years and that I have never had one flog itself open or otherwise fail. They stay closed when you want them to, and open when you want them to, at least IMHO.
I was surprised to read an article in "Good Old Boat" some time ago about the various knots, splices, bends, and other schemes people use to connect their sheets to a headsail. What astounded me most were how elaborate some of these ideas were.
Sometime after I read that article, GOB founders Karen Larson and Jerry Powlas decided to do an article on my boat (Jul/Aug '07). In the course of taking pictures of my boat for the article, we also went for a nice sail. Karen remarked about the fact that I use bowlines to connect my sheets to the furling genoa. We then discussed the article on this subject. She indicated that a number of people had mentioned to her that bowlines will open in a blow. I told her that I have been using bowlines for over 30 years and that I have never had one flog itself open or otherwise fail. They stay closed when you want them to, and open when you want them to, at least IMHO.
Paul, it's the same knot, it's only the direction that you tie it
Most people make the knot facing the bow (with the jib either on the deck or hoisted). That doesn't work. Face aft so that the tail of the knot (after it comes up through that dagnabbit rabbit hole) is facing forward into the loop. The part of the jib sheet going aft to the fairleads is used to make the "loop" - not facing forward to the clew. Then the loop part of the knot used to UNDO the knot slides aft onto the long part of the jib sheets going aft, and not forward into itself.
Figured there was a name for it... picture is worth a thousand words!I prefer either a Cow's Hitch in a single line, or two bowlines on separate jib sheets. On certain sail clews I have seen a cows hitch slip so you need to try it for your specific clew but 90+% of the time I have never seen a cows hitch slip. It is also smaller in mass and leaves less of a welt than two bowlines.
Cow's Hitch
I don't understand Don's comment on a bowline being tough to get untied? I have been on a commercial fishing boat where we towed another boat over ten miles and under tremendous loads and the bowline came undone with zero issues or effort. Simply "break the back" and it comes untied..?
What ever you do avoid the use of shackles. The clew is heavy enough to do some damage you don't need to add to it. Those of us who have had the opportunity to be hit by a flailing clew understand this well.
Many racers won't even tie stopper knots to avoid getting whipped. It also speeds up sheet changes from inboard tracks to outboard. If racing, the lightest mass at the clew possible is what is generally, preferred especially in light winds, and this is where a cows hitch will win over the bowline in light air performance. Lighter weight performance sheets will do more but starting with a low mass knot is a good first step..
A cow's hitch is great if you have a single line for both port and starboard sheets, but you can't end-for-end the sheets to spread out chafe and wear with a single line. I prefer to use two bowlines... and separate sheets.
Shackles make the clew of the sail a lethal weapon when it is flogging. The bowlines will swat you good, but won't kill you.
Properly tied, the bowline won't hang up on shrouds or lifelines...and won't come untied. One thing that helps is if you leave the "tail" of the bowline fairly long—say six inches, rather than short, and if you tie the loop in the bowline fairly small and tight to the clew of the sail.
Shackles make the clew of the sail a lethal weapon when it is flogging. The bowlines will swat you good, but won't kill you.
Properly tied, the bowline won't hang up on shrouds or lifelines...and won't come untied. One thing that helps is if you leave the "tail" of the bowline fairly long—say six inches, rather than short, and if you tie the loop in the bowline fairly small and tight to the clew of the sail.
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