How do they drain?

Donnybrook · Mar 24, 2012

Not all C27s are plumbed the same, but most inboard models cockpit drains are 2 hoses that drain out the bottom of the boat at the stern. Make sure the engine runs or you could easily invest more money than the boat will be worth.

Jon_E · Mar 24, 2012

Sounds good. A few additional items:

Check the mast and boom for filiform corrosion. Those are blisters that occur between paint and metal. Look VERY carefully where the mast meets the mast plate at the deck, and look around the mast exits and cleats. A little is not unusual, but it will have to be addressed. If it is severe (especially down by the mast plate) it's a safety issue that will cost major coin to fix.
How does the standing rigging look? When I was buying my boat, I only inspected the turnbuckles and shrouds at deck level. I didn't see that up near the top of the mast wires in two cables (shrouds) were broken. I should have gone up in a bosun's chair to inspect. All standing rigging needed to be replaced, which was terribly expensive. My bad.
In the cabin, look at the bottom of the compression post and bulkheads for any rot, compromised wood, or water damage. Check around the chain plates for same.
How do the keel bolts look? Rusted or new?
Hull? Catalina smile? Blisters? Propeller corrosion?
If it has a tiller, see if there is a lot of loose play. That could indicate needed work with the rudder post.

If all of those items check out (and assuming the engine and sails are as you said) it could be worth it.

Jon_E · Mar 24, 2012

kerryonc27 said:
Has anyone seen the video on you tube called "Becoming Elizabeth" the restoration of a 78 Catalina 27...one of those feel good stories that gives you hope!

I just saw the video at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4MRcVG66Ig
Holy cow. Feel good is right. My eyes watered up, I'm not kidding.

Jon_E · Mar 25, 2012

Regarding the water draining, I can tell you how it works in a outboard model. I can only assume it is the same for an inboard model. The cockpit drains to the stern engine compartment which drains right into the ocean by gravity. Lift hatch to stern lazarette to see, nothing complicated. As for the bilge, there is a thick, thick translucent hose that goes from the bilge straight back to the same engine compartment near the rudder post. Gravity takes it from there to the ocean the same way in the same place.

I always liked the way the bilge hose was designed on Cat-27s. First, it is very heavy so nothing can crush it shut. Second, it is made out of a plastic that becomes malleable in a bucket of very hot water (good for fitting on to a new bilge pump). Third, it is smooth, not ribbed. Ribbed hoses create friction which reduces pumping volume. Fourth, it is a straight shot from the bilge out the stern; no bends or twists to further reduce pump effectiveness. Not all boats have such a good simple design to remove bilge water.

As for the damage you saw, I have always found comfort by the words of Don Casey in his sailboat maintenance/repair book series. To paraphrase (I don't have the book on hand), he says there are few ways to damage fiberglass that cannot be repaired. Having said that, there are many ways to repair fiberglass poorly. The way the layers were put in, if air bubbles were removed, if they even used fiberglass at all. Someone who works with fiberglass will have to go below to look at it. You can ask them who did the work... was it a professional boat yard or was it the owner?

If you're asking to trace the repair work based on the hull number, no, it doesn't work like it does with cars. Damage is not reported to a central database. Sorry!

The fact is a lot of boats this age are going to have some bruises.

As for the "Becoming Elizabeth" video, I spent a lot of time working on my boat the same way. When a horse or dog becomes affectionately "old girl" to its owner, it is a sad one way street. But an old neglected fiberglass boat can be brought back to life with enough love and money. It is probably why the video is so moving.

Honestly, I've spent way more time than I anticipated restoring my Catalina-27, and certainly way more money than I ever imagined when I bought her. In the middle of the project I was doubting my sanity and judgement. Now? It was worth every penny. The reward is intrinsic (feel good) as opposed to extrinsic (profit). We do it because we like the work as much as we like the sailing.

If you buy her, she will give you memories that will last a lifetime.

Chris Nowell · Jun 27, 2012

Ron, can't find the video ya mentioned, if you could enclose a link I'd appreciate it. As I'm a newbee too I have no tech advice for you however, around my part of the country the late 70's and early 80's Cat 27's in fair to rough shape but well equipped are asking $12K - $16K. If had had the opportunity to buy one of these beauties at $4,000.00 I'd think I was dreaming. All the best and good luck.

Chris Nowell · Jun 27, 2012

Sorry guys, I should've read all the posts. The link to the video I needed was right above me, duh.

Dixie Chicken · Jan 21, 2013

To Chris Nowell... man... you need to search Craigslist in the Maryland, Virginia, N. Carolina area. Catalina 27's are $2,500 and up. Buy a trailer and enjoy.

Dixie Chicken · Jan 21, 2013

Ron.. since you have been looking at various boats.. that's wise. I might suggest you hire a surveyor once you think you have found the boat you like. And stay with him... watch and learn.. so if you don't buy that boat, you'll at least learn a lot, and what to look for. You don't need to do a complete survey, unless you intend to get insurance. Just ask him to do a simple survey.

jrowan · Jan 24, 2013

I personally don't think that a survey on a sailboat of less then 30 feet or less then 5k in price is really worth the price of a survey, which is expensive. My advice is to buy Don Casey's book "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" which is an excellent guide & will teach you to inspect everything that an surveyor looks for. It will teach how to sound out the deck & hull with a rubber mallet to listen for dull thuds of delamination or wet rot of balsa core.

Most surveyors don't even test the engine or perform a compression test of thorough evaluation of it. Since the engine is half of the propulsion & a heck of a lot of money to rebuild or replace, I would instead put your money towards hiring a marine diesel mechanic to evaluate the engine & perform a compression test. This is the only real way to access the health of the engine. Anyone can buy a can of spray paint & degreaser & an engine can look new at a glance, but really be severely worn, corroded & neglected.
Sails are also a huge investment on a sailboat. Raise all of the sails & look for wear, rips, tears, etc. The dacron cloth should still feel pretty stiff if they have life in em, but soft if they're worn out. If the boat has been in the water for several years it will likely need a haul out & bottom job. By the time you pay for the haul, wash & block & bottom paint, etc. it will set you back the better part of a grand, minumum. That's if she doesn't have a Catalina smile where the keel to hull joint is located at the forward end of the keel. A '74 model C 27 should be looked at hard for & replace any original standing rigging, rusting mild steel keel bolts, under sized chain plate cracks or crevice corrosion failure, compression fatigue at the mast base, & any original gate type valves must be replaced as they can break off easily & sink the boat. Just a few problematic areas to look out for. Good luck & enjoy the hunt.

anchorclanker · Jan 24, 2013

There is a cat 27 near me that will probably come up for sale soon. Were trying to track down the owner, but the boat has sat for a good long time and is not in very good condition. If the sails are useable I will probably offer $500. The amount of work the boat needs simply is too much to pay any more than that, and if the sails aren't good I wouldn't want it for free. I walk the slips at the various marinas and see boats in all states of condition, and many just don't realize how deep you could get into a big mess if you make a poor decision.

And that's only what we see looking in. Start digging around and you can likely find more work and money you'll need to spend.

Lets assume a 74 cat 27 is worth $7000 in good operational condition with a trailer. Were not talking mint with new shiny sails, just a more or less clean boat in working condition. No trailer? deduct some amount one would cost. Sails can be very expensive. If you don't hoist them or lay them out to inspect them, and they are in poor condition, it could be worth several thousand dollars. If you don't have a compression test done, or do it yourself, a worn engine could set you back several thousand dollars. Then you have the hull condition, interior condition, and rigging to consider.

You can easily reduce the value of an old boat below zero value if enough issues present themselves. You dont need to be an expert at any of it, but you do need to be able to determine the various parts and systems usefulness, or locate someone who can, like checking the engine for example.

Jon_E · Jan 26, 2013

jrowan said:
I personally don't think that a survey on a sailboat of less then 30 feet or less then 5k in price is really worth the price of a survey, which is expensive. My advice is to buy Don Casey's book "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" which is an excellent guide & will teach you to inspect everything that an surveyor looks for.

I have this book and I agree with jrowan; it is an excellent book. However, you may want to consider getting a survey anyway if you have decided to make an offer on the boat (or make an offer contingent on a survey, just like you do when buying a house). Why? Your insurance carrier may require it before bonding you to a policy. If you have to get one anyway, you may as well get it before you buy the boat and reduce your risk.

I switched insurance from AAA to BoatUS last year and despite never submitting a claim, no accidents, and owning the boat with continuous insurance for the last four years, they still required a survey.

dj2210 · Jan 26, 2013

Yes they do, I went with Boat US also on my 82 C27 and they required a survey. In fact if the survey finds anything wrong, Boat US will want it fixed. I had some things and after I fixed them had the surveyor back to sign off on the issues. Marina required insurance so I had no choice.