How do I Clean Hunter 49 Fuel Tank, or the Fuel.

[Screen Saver]

Hi. I have Hunter 49, she has done many miles (Over 100k) I live on board and recently picked up a load of fuel (Aprox 500L) and shortly (20min) after the engine (4JH4-HTE) exhibited signs of fuel starvation and stopped. I hadnt changed filters on a regular bases, but the last time this happened (4 years ago) I simply replaced the Racor 20s filter which was long over due and all was fine.
This time that hasn't worked. The fuel I took on came from a reputable source, its filtered, and they use it in a number of Lagoon charter boats, so I assume its good. Having now used up a couple more Racor filters (30P was all they had) and also replaced the Yanmar filter on the side of the engine, and still the same result, I'm coming to the conclusion that the act of taking on a large amount of fuel from a station type pump has stirred up sludge at the bottom of the tank.
The tank shaped like a single bed mattress (similar size) and even if I cut one whole to get my arm in there, the baffles and size make it extremely difficult to clean properly. I would also want to be 100% sure this is the issue before cutting wholes and dropping debris inside to then figure out how to seal it again.

So im pondering trying to build some sort of fuel polishing, simply run a small fuel pump (the one on the genset seems to work) to run the fuel through the Racor and back to the tank either via the return line or via the fuel sender gauge whole. Then backwash the Racor, (disposing of the fuel) and repeat that step, till the Racor has recycled a couple of tank loads.

So anyone ever cleaned one of these tanks ?

Anyone had any other problems, other than clogged filters due to sludge in the tank resulting in the apparent starvation of fuel ?

Note if you have this problem that I have, pumping the fuel prime plunger on the top of the yanmar fuel filter will breath new life into the Yanmar and save you being caught with no motor at the wrong time, but be quick and show someone else how to do it.

 

[seadaddler]

I used electric fuel pump like for Gen and I pumped all fuel out into jugs and than used
snake type cell camera down around in side tank and found rubber like gunk in the very rear and used shop vac with small hose Dow into tank sucked it so clean than using raycor fuel filter pumped fuel from jugs back into tank and I used fuel filter when sucking fuel out and fuel filter back in.

 

[artboas]

I used electric fuel pump like for Gen and I pumped all fuel out into jugs and than used
snake type cell camera down around in side tank and found rubber like gunk in the very rear and used shop vac with small hose Dow into tank sucked it so clean than using raycor fuel filter pumped fuel from jugs back into tank and I used fuel filter when sucking fuel out and fuel filter back in.

Ok, do I have a favourite expression …
“Don’t reinvent wheels”
There are fuel polishing services with mobile facilities that serve marinas.
Assuming that they do this for a living, have the correct gear and expertise,I think this is your most logical answer.
If you need a new suit, it’s easier to buy one from a store than to learn how to become a tailor.
I’m just saying…

 

[Screen Saver]

Hi, Yea in the back of Indonesia, there aren't any fuel polishing services sadly and I would not expect to many in Asia as whole. So yep maybe I do need to get out the 500 odd L somewhere and find some way to clean up inside with some sort if vacuum cleaner. Im thinking probably best to try and suck it out without a filter and drag as much junk as I can with it, Then not sure how to then clean in there (maybe vacuum) but its a big tank , or whether enough junk that will come out with the fuel would be enough and just filter it as I put it back. I also need to find away to get to a marina of some sort that is safe to do this. But ok I guess I have part of the answer I didn't want to hear pull the fuel out. Also I can try the vacuum idea so thanks. I as pondering paralleling two racors and perhaps hoping that 4 filters later it would be sufficient or there was some sort of cleanable diesel fuel filter I could use. Just clean it every day for a week or so.

 

[Nodak7]

Is it a metal or plastic tank? We cleaned our plastic tank by cutting a hole in it pumping the fuel into 5 gal containers wiping it out then putting a clean out connection on it. Then added a access plate (Seabuilt - Access Plate Systems). Then we replaced the fuel by running it thru a water separating fine screen. It worked great and much cheaper than hiring someone to do it plus we have a means to regularly inspect and clean the tank if necessary.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Fuel Starvation and The Obscure Check Ball Valve
Fuel Starvation and The Obscure Check Ball Valve
and
Fuel Starvation and The Obscure Ball Check Valve

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

If you want to build a polishing setup yourself, check out "Shelco Single Cartridge Filer". These filters would have a much larger surface area to filter the fuel. If you use a Racor type filter, It will clog and become useless very quickly. As far as the pump, I think you would want more flow than a pump for a generator. Many more powerful pumps are available on e-bay.
Six years ago I bought everything needed to build my own fuel polishing system, but have yet to install. So far I have been lucky to not need it.

 

[Tom J]

Sounds like you are stuck making your own fuel polishing system. This could be helpful, but not if you have to use the existing fuel pickup and return line. If you could route two hoses into the tank to pick up the sludge and have the return line stirring it up, you will have a better chance at success.

 

[Screen Saver]

Is it a metal or plastic tank? We cleaned our plastic tank by cutting a hole in it pumping the fuel into 5 gal containers wiping it out then putting a clean out connection on it. Then added a access plate (Seabuilt - Access Plate Systems). Then we replaced the fuel by running it thru a water separating fine screen. It worked great and much cheaper than hiring someone to do it plus we have a means to regularly inspect and clean the tank if necessary.

Its Plastic, and in my case I need to get out about 500L, and store it The Access Plate system looks good, but it will be long and hard to do from Indonesia. However maybe I could have a copy of the idea made. I cant actual find an email contact for the tank manufactore, in fact I cant get to there website either it seems broken.

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

SeaStar Solutions (formerly Teleflex Marine), a leading supplier of marine steering and control systems, engine parts and related products, today announced that it has acquired INCA Molded Products, Inc., the Nashville, TN USA based manufacturer of rotationally molded plastic products.

 

[Screen Saver]

Fuel Starvation and The Obscure Check Ball Valve
Fuel Starvation and The Obscure Check Ball Valve
and
Fuel Starvation and The Obscure Ball Check Valve

Hi, thanks very much for this. A good thought that in fact I should have already checked. My Hunter came with Racor R12 for Gentset and R20 for main engine. I stupidly found my self with no spare R20 when this started. So I bought a another R20 complete filter assembly and some spare R20 filters to eventually put where the R12 is (genset) then both filters are the same so easier for caring spares, plus once I fix this problem by both (genset & Eng) being the same I can easily switch filter outputs, or pickups etc. As it stands right now the main engine wont run more than about 10min of the genset (R12) supply there is just not enough fuel I assume.
However the relevant part here is I wanted to try backwashing the R20 filters. Keep in mind Im in the boon docks from a US prospective. So eventually on the newly purchased Racor R20 assembly I found what stopped the fuel going backwards, ie the check valve, and as pointed out if the filter is below the tank you don't need it. I tried to get it out so I could put it back, but it seems impossible. So I removed the check valve rubber grommet then ran fuel from my existing R12 filter (so clean) into the output of the new R20 filter assembly (so effectively back flushing the filter) into a container. Having done that I ran it the right way around for a few minutes, then removed the cartridge from the new R20 assembly and put into the existing R20 assembly that is connected to the main engine and re tested. It helped but not enough. I assume this is because just picked up more dirt. So yes I have now checked all Check Valves. They look fine.
I carry 22L of diesel in a jerry can just in case I somehow lose all my fuel. So this morning the plan is to use my last R20 filter try and replumb pickup and return lines from the main engine to run off the 22L jerry cann. In theory this should conclusively prove the problem, plus it should give me enough engine hours to motor and get to the nearest thing that resembles a marine (42nm). Next to no sailing options in these latitudes. All be it slow I suspect I can run the R12 and genset lift pump output(which looks fine) into the jerry can to top it up if it gets low.
I have been looking for a contact on the fuel tank, to find out if I must cut a whole for the ultimate solution, then where are all the baffles etc, but this website http://www.incaproducts.com says access forbiden and SeaStar Solutions contact page goes something completely irrelevant. So if anyone has any contacts for INCA (picture of tank is above) please let me know.

 

[Screen Saver]

Anyone have a working email address for SeaStar Solutions. Im trying to find any tank design doco they might have from INCA, but clearly SeaStar do not want clients or to be contacted either, as they point to Dometic. Three companies/takeovers or merges later I will never find a thing for sure . I will try Hunter perhaps in vain hope.

 

[Screen Saver]

Ok so by way of an update: At this moment by passing the fuel tank and picking up fuel from a 22L jerry can and running the return back to the jerry can with a new filters seems to work, so this should get me to a better place, so at least Im not on anchor and have some access to other resources. However in the mean time I have done a bunch of research into fuel polishing, which at the end of the day as far as I can see seems very misleading or a misnomer. By default every diesel with a filter of any sort is doing fuel polishing by virtue it picks up the fuel, sucks it through a filter preferably one with a water trap and puts ( in theory) clean fuel back in the tank. So the only difference I can see is the filters ability to sustain however much dirt is involved or collected while still providing enough fuel to keep the engine going. Some of DIY guys are using racor 500, but they will still of course clog up, if your fuel is dirty, so you must replace the filter. It would seem the better approach in terms of fuel polishing might me to find the biggest element surface area and the cheapest filter element, insert that ahead of my Racor 20, and just keep replacing cheap elements. Cleanable elements seem to be around 100 Micron, nothing I have seen down at the 30 Micron which I expect is the bare minimum.

 

[jssailem]

a bunch of research into fuel polishing, .... as far as I can see seems very misleading or a misnomer.

I have been monitoring your post and when I was addressing the same issues: trying to cruise, having an engine with fuel problem, looking for a simple solution, not being willing to pay someone $2500 to polish my 150 gal (567 liters) of fuel and not ready to buy a fuel polishing system, I had to come up with a solution.

every diesel with a filter of any sort is doing fuel polishing by virtue it picks up the fuel, sucks it through a filter preferably one with a water trap and puts ( in theory) clean fuel back in the tank. So the only difference I can see is the filters ability to sustain however much dirt is involved or collected while still providing enough fuel to keep the engine going.

I reached the same conclusion.

Cleanable elements seem to be around 100 Micron, nothing I have seen down at the 30 Micron which I expect is the bare minimum.

This was a potential solution. 30 micron filter is what my Perkins engine from 1973 called for. Filtering beyond that while nice, just was more than needed,

I solved the issue in two ways. One, like you isolated my fuel source and concentrated my efforts on one of the two tanks (starboard). I attacked the problem which I have found called Diesel Bug (Diesel bug is a single microorganism or a consortium (group) of microorganisms that grow on fuels. It includes bacteria, filamentous moulds and yeasts.) They feed on the hydrocarbons in the fuel and exist, as I understand, in the film between water and fuel. My conjecture is eliminate the water (or heavily reduce the water that gets into fuel) you rob the place where the Diesel Bug lives. I introduced a Racor 500 filter with a 30 micron removable filter into my system. This served to trap the debris in my fuel system as well as is a good design to separate water from fuel.

Second I started using additives. I fueled more often and lesser amounts than full tanks. This served to do a better job of fuel rotation. Running the fuel through the Racor filtered out the debris and the additives worked on making the tank an inhospitable place for the bugs. The fuel that was in my port tank was pumped into the starboard tank a little at a time. I used a walbro continuous run fuel pump to transport the fuel from the port tank, to the starboard tank through the Racor. This cleaned the port tank fuel of water and debris.

I got filters out that looked full of coffee grounds ( I understand this to be the waste of the diesel bugs).


In time I cleared the starboard tank of debris and now run clean fuel. While mostly clean, the port tank still needs some work.

I understand in your situation you have to MacGyver a solution till you get to a populated area with resources. Your Jerry Can approach sure seems like the solution, that and sailing as much as possible.

Regarding the additives, I use 2: Biobor JF and Star Tron Diesel.

These seem to work for me. That and being real good at changing the filter as the first sign of fuel starvation.

On a side note, I thought I would rig a large pump with a spray wand to spray into my diesel tanks in an effort to battle the issue. While this may be a solution for a boat with a 25gl (100lt)tank I did not find it practical on my large tanks. I was concerned that the big pump idea would lead to aeration and foaming of the fuel. So I abandoned that approach as I observed the filter and additives doing their job.

 

[Screen Saver]

I have been monitoring your post and when I was addressing the same issues: trying to cruise, having an engine with fuel problem, looking for a simple solution, not being willing to pay someone $2500 to polish my 150 gal (567 liters) of fuel and not ready to buy a fuel polishing system, I had to come up with a solution.


I reached the same conclusion.


This was a potential solution. 30 micron filter is what my Perkins engine from 1973 called for. Filtering beyond that while nice, just was more than needed,

I solved the issue in two ways. One, like you isolated my fuel source and concentrated my efforts on one of the two tanks (starboard). I attacked the problem which I have found called Diesel Bug (Diesel bug is a single microorganism or a consortium (group) of microorganisms that grow on fuels. It includes bacteria, filamentous moulds and yeasts.) They feed on the hydrocarbons in the fuel and exist, as I understand, in the film between water and fuel. My conjecture is eliminate the water (or heavily reduce the water that gets into fuel) you rob the place where the Diesel Bug lives. I introduced a Racor 500 filter with a 30 micron removable filter into my system. This served to trap the debris in my fuel system as well as is a good design to separate water from fuel.

Second I started using additives. I fueled more often and lesser amounts than full tanks. This served to do a better job of fuel rotation. Running the fuel through the Racor filtered out the debris and the additives worked on making the tank an inhospitable place for the bugs. The fuel that was in my port tank was pumped into the starboard tank a little at a time. I used a walbro continuous run fuel pump to transport the fuel from the port tank, to the starboard tank through the Racor. This cleaned the port tank fuel of water and debris.

I got filters out that looked full of coffee grounds ( I understand this to be the waste of the diesel bugs).
View attachment 203995

In time I cleared the starboard tank of debris and now run clean fuel. While mostly clean, the port tank still needs some work.

I understand in your situation you have to MacGyver a solution till you get to a populated area with resources. Your Jerry Can approach sure seems like the solution, that and sailing as much as possible.

Regarding the additives, I use 2: Biobor JF and Star Tron Diesel.

These seem to work for me. That and being real good at changing the filter as the first sign of fuel starvation.

On a side note, I thought I would rig a large pump with a spray wand to spray into my diesel tanks in an effort to battle the issue. While this may be a solution for a boat with a 25gl (100lt)tank I did not find it practical on my large tanks. I was concerned that the big pump idea would lead to aeration and foaming of the fuel. So I abandoned that approach as I observed the filter and additives doing their job.

its always nice to find someone on the same page I actually don't have a choice of either getting someone in or buying a fuel polisher. However $2500 for 567L, even at todays stupid prices it would be almost cheaper to dump what I have and replace the lot. My concern with the 30 Micron is Im aware that the filter on the Yanmar itself is a lot less than that, so its likely be my next blockage, and being Yanmar they are expensive and no where near as available as the Racor.
Your the first person to comment on the color and context and your description is better than mine and 99% matches what I see, with the exception of something of a similar size that shines very occasionally. I had until your note concluded it probably wasn't a diesel bug, because it didn't fit what I thought it diesel bug looked like. Im not sure how you determined that's what is, but I will run with it.
I only have one fuel tank and as mentioned above cutting a whole to clean is a last ditch stand. So I will try pulling all the fuel out when i get to the Marina, and let sit 2 or 3 days and put back the top 90%. I might also try throwing/spraying some kero in the tank, pending how empty I can actually get the tank and I will also ponder your aeration & foaming point. I'm told there are no additives here, and forget about good ones, so I will need to ponder ordering or wait till I get back to Oz. The only other option is perhaps make my interim solution with backup jerry cann more permanent, and then run the 12v genset lift pump from the main tank through the Racor to keep the Jerry Cann topped up. Messy and risk of either under or over filling Jerry Can. I will also check whether the Racor 500 is any better than the 220 series I have at trapping water. Thanks

 

[senang]

Screen Saver don’t spend to much effort trying to contact the manufacturer of your poly tank. I also have a rotomoulded tank in our boat and got through to the USA manufacturer concerning creating an access in the tank for cleaning. The answer “Is not possible”. Their answer is in line with the US culture of suing for everything. If they say you can cut a hole and it leaks and the boat catches fire they can be sued I think. They just so NO. Just do what you think is best. Concerning the gasket material for the hatch, just use cork, it will outlast the boat.
I have installed separate pickup and returns lines for the polishing system and run it everyday on a timer for one hour, roughly the volume of the tank. I installed only cleanable filters for water and dirt filtration and check regularly. Filters are still clean since installation.

 

[jssailem]

Yes... Diesel Bug is a fun catchall term. More scientific term is "Fuel Contamination"

This site has some good info to identify the issue.
Diesel Bug: How To Identify & Get Rid Of It // Octane

What is Diesel Bug?
While we might think that fuel would be a hostile environment for any growth, aerobic and anaerobic bacteria can thrive in fuel tanks and storage systems when the conditions are right. Fungal spores and bacteria are common in fuel tanks because they easily spread. The presence of bacteria is not necessarily the issue at hand. What is an issue, however, is the fungal and bacterial growth that triggers microbial growth.

Fungus and bacteria love kerosene and diesel, much more than gasoline, which is why microbial contamination is a much more prominent issue with diesel.

Three factors encourage microbial growth in fuel:

• 1.Water
• 2.Food Source
• 3.Correct Temperature Range

I suspect you have 2 out of the 3 going on in your tank...

Not much you can do about food source and temperature. But eliminating the water in the fuel will go a long way to helping you resolve the problem.

I like the Racor 500, because it uses a swirl action to separate the debris and water from the incoming fuel. This accumulates at the bottom of the 500 and can be emptied out the bottom of the filter holder.

The Racor filters are about $10 USD here. I bought a bunch and am still going through the box.

Study the data on 30 vs 10 Micron design. It sounds like a lot of difference but probably is not as much as you think. My Racor with the 30 micron filter catches almost all of the crap that could cause an issue for my engine. At 30 microns is is less likely to clog up and not pass fuel. There is a second filter on the engine that does the final filtering before the fuel is put into the engine. It functions with out issue. I replace it about every 2 years out of habit. Usually is clean with none of the debris seen in the Racor filter.

Regarding the "shiny" stuff, first time I was cleaning the fuel lines I discovered a glob of a gelatin like stuff at the 90º fitting into my filter. Reminded me of a piece of a dirty jelly fish. I flushed it out of the fitting and disposed of it. Suspect it came as part of the sludge that was on the tank bottom. If it had not lodged there, it would have ended up in the bottom of the Racor or on the filter screen. In the fitting it was like a plug stopping the flow of fuel. That was first and only time I have seen the material. The Goo from the Dark Lagoon.

 

[Screen Saver]

Screen Saver don’t spend to much effort trying to contact the manufacturer of your poly tank. I also have a rotomoulded tank in our boat and got through to the USA manufacturer concerning creating an access in the tank for cleaning. The answer “Is not possible”. Their answer is in line with the US culture of suing for everything. If they say you can cut a hole and it leaks and the boat catches fire they can be sued I think. They just so NO. Just do what you think is best. Concerning the gasket material for the hatch, just use cork, it will outlast the boat.
I have installed separate pickup and returns lines for the polishing system and run it everyday on a timer for one hour, roughly the volume of the tank. I installed only cleanable filters for water and dirt filtration and check regularly. Filters are still clean since installation.

Yea I have already given up trying to find the tank info. But the trail was somewhat interesting and helps explain why Teleflex didn’t respond to another query. It seems many takeovers buy outs have promoted a complete lack of service. But thanks for the heads up on the arse covering.

Polishing system, ok now we are talking, if it has cleanable filters I can see the logic. Can you tell me what filters are in your DIY Polishing setup ?

 

[Screen Saver]

So here is a rather long update as problem goes on:
Yanmar 4JH4-TE. Fuel issues. I admit Im not sure what to do next. Here is a summary

When did it start: Right after (10min) taking on a new load of fuel some 400L
Symptoms: Fuel starvation, it will start to stumble, miss a beat or two, gets slowly worse, revs drop, eventually it stalls. It used to start almost instantly, now its slow and you must grind for 10 seconds and it gradually winds its way into life.
Assumed cause: Bad fuel, or dirty filter, or sediment disturbed from filling process, clogging the filter.

Relevant information: The Hunter 49 has one fuel tank with multiple pickups, for Main engine, genset, & auxiliary. The genset is using the same fuel tank and its own filter has not missed a beat, and is running now as I right this.

What I have done:
Initially I replaced the external Racor filter, which was old, before replacement of this filter and after the fueling the engine would run maybe 10minuts and after the new filter it would last about 3 hours before the symptoms return

Then I replaced the Yanmar filter on the Engine, this made no difference

I decided it had to be bad fuel dirty fuel, so I bought a highspeed transfer pump and hoses, sucked some 500L out as quick as I could hopefully taking some dirt with it and then let it sit. Mean time as best I could through the fuel sender whole I cleaned out the tank and looked around with mirrors, pushed nice white microfiber cloth all around inside on a wire. The tank itself looked pretty clean to me. On the very bottom where it took the last bit of fuel out there was a small dirty track and three sticky knobs about the size of cigarette butt (which I understand is the fuel bug), the rest of the tank was brilliant white and clean

I bought an expensive Yanmar lift pump and put 80% of the fuel back via the yanmar lift pump and a new 30 micron Racor filter assembly. Not one drop went back into the tank that did not go through the 30 micron filter. I also replace the racor filter again . so Now I should have clean fuel, clean tank and another new filter was used. No change, didn’t fix it.


I bought another Racor Filter Assembly complete and ran that to the Yanmar lift pump I bought, with the output of lift pump going back to the return to the tank. Effectively fuel polishing. I ran this 24hrs putting about 1200 odd liters through the system.

In desperation I replaced the rubber fuel lines tank to filter, to Yanmar. ( didn’t replace the return) … no improvement.

I tested and measured how much fuel can the lift pump suck through the Racor. The filter that I used to put the fuel from my storage drums back into the tank, was pumping 1 liter every 72 seconds when I started and at the end 1L ever 2 ½ min, so from this I deduced the filter was doing its job and the fuel was indeed bad.

I then inserted my lift pump between the Racor and the Yanmar fuel line, to help it get fuel. So with a new filter and the lift pump, roughly capable of feeding my engine 1L 72 seconds (approx. 50L/hr) that should be more than enough.

Off course each time I opened any fuel connecting points I bleed both racor and yanmar, and keep in mind I have never ever until now had to bleed any of my fuel lines. But to be sure I did it anyway.

I then moved the pickup point of my Yanmar to connection point for the genset which did not help.

So now perhaps with tunnel vison as I have been on this over a month now. I see no other choice but to have two problems.
Given it started with 10min of fueling, and the fact that the filter used to put back the fuel into my tank could only pass fuel at half the rate it started with, I conclude the fuel was bad.

However moving on, given the fuel has all been through a 30 Micron filter, and the current filter on the engine ( that is still stopping) is passing fuel at the rate of a new filter, and I have added a lift pump it never had before, this must be a secondary problem within the very expensive and complicated Yanmar injector pump.??

The problem I have with this deduction, is it assumes two problems, or one caused the other, ie dirty fuel and bad Yanmar injector pump. Plus from cold (ok 30c) start in the morning, it will typically run fine for maybe 3 hours at 1500 and has no trouble (in this period) going to 2500 (9knts) The engine is well up to temperature in the first 10-20 min. So how come it runs for 2 or 3 hours. This is not typical of a mechanical problem

 

[SFS]

Can't help you with the issues in the final paragraph of the post above, but if the genset is running on the same (now polished) fuel that your engine will not run on, the problem is no longer with the fuel. Adjust your troubleshooting accordingly. Remember to change only one variable at a time.