house battery bank

[Jalepeno]

My present house battery bank consists of two, group-34 spiral-grid AGM 12-volt batteries wired in parallel. These batteries are four years old and rated at 50-AH each for a total of 100-AH capacity. Using the 50% rule I should be able to utilize about 50-AH without adverse affects. All of my navigation and interior lights are LED (about 0.1-amp each). There are no refrigeration or heater fan 12-volt loads. My biggest load is the stereo when in port and the VHF & chart plotter when sailing. The batteries don’t hold a charge for very long (confirmed by battery monitor) and it looks like I need to replace the house bank batteries.

I will probably get two, 6-volt golf-cart batteries wired in series. Doing a bit of home work, it looks like the choices available in the Vancouver area come down to either Trojan T-105 wet-cell 6-volt 230-AH or US Battery US-2200-XC wet-cell 6-volt 232-AH.

What are your thoughts, experiences and recommendations for this application?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Great idea. You can find less expensive golf cart batteries, although maybe not up your way. If you do a search on "golf cart" you may be able to find other sources.

 

[Ron20324]

Do you have a third battery? If not, you would do better to have 2, 12-volt batteries. If one of the 6's dies, you have no 12-volts to run anything.

 

[Maine Sail]

The T105 should be 225Ah and is a good battery though its become quite expensive in the last 5 years.

The US Battery 6V is a direct competitor to Trojan and is as good, if not better, IMHO and usually LESS MONEY.. You can't go wrong with either brand so I'd just go with price....

Keep in mind that a 6V battery is taller than the current bank you have so make sure you have the space...

 

[Jalepeno]

Thank you Maine Sail for your input.

Sorry about the typo error, the T-105 is rated at 225-AH. The best prices I can find locally (Canadian funds plus tax) for 6-volt flooded batteries are:

- Trojan, T-105 (225-AH) is $160
- Deka, PS-2000 (216-AH) is $150
- US Battery, US-2200-XC (232-AH) is $120

I think I will go and buy two US-2200-XC batteries tomorrow. The distributor recovers lead for recycling and will buy back the old batteries for $7 each. Helps pay the sales tax.

Ps. the answer is YES all of the following:
- I do have a third dedicated backup starting 12-volt battery.
- I do have the capability to hand crank my Yanmar YSM-12 if need be.
- I do have a four-position (OFF-B1-BOTH-B2) battery switch.
- I do know how to properly us the battery switch.
- I do have a Xantrex LinkLITE battery monitor.


Another question:

Is it a good idea to put an emergency DC isolation switch between the battery monitor shunt and motor?

 

[Ed Schenck]

Can you get to the US of A? That Deka is the same as the DuraCell that I recently purchased I think. A pair was less than $160. at Sam's Club.

 

[Mark Maulden]

I've always used Dyno which are made in Seattle. I think they are available in Vancouver through a distributor. They supply batts to the fishing fleets. I've always been happy with them. www.dyno.com

 

[Benny17441]

I see by your profile that you may have a Yanmar inboard engine. Other than perhaps starting this engine your power needs seem to be meager. You are proposing to quadruple your AH capacity for no apparent reason. I would think it would be more useful to provide some redundancy in your 12V supply to help insure adequate power to start the diesel. It could prove invaluable in an emergency. My suggestion would be the adoption of a more traditional battery setup with two group 27 wet cell 12V batteries configured into two separate banks which could be combined with a 1,2,All,Off switch. You would be carrying about 200 AH which doubles your current capacity plus you will have a backup source. I'm always a little hesitant about to large a battery bank in contrast with the the needs or usage. A large bank may not get the exercise it needs to fight sulfation. Batteries have to be drawn down to around less than 75% for bulk charge to be activated. With a 460 AH capacity they would need to be drawn down by approximately more than 115 AH which is more capacity than you currently have. Golf Cart batteries are a great way of adding large storage capacity when needed but if that extra capacity is not needed you may save weight and money and gain a backup power reserve. Fair winds.... come next spring.

 

[Jalepeno]

Thank you for the comments.
· It is not cost and time effective to drive the two hours to Seattle when you add the now normal two hour wait at the border. A full day just to save a few bucks? Sorry, but that is just another example of lost business due to your border delays.
· Two 6-volt batteries in series do not double the available AH only the total voltage.
· The present system uses two 12-volt AGM 50-AH batteries in parallel to double the rated AHs to 100-AH on B1 and one 12-volt dedicated starting battery for backup on B2. This system should provide 50% of 100-AH = 50-AH for house loads on B1. Remember B2 in normally never used and I can also start the YSM with the hand crank if needed.
· I would like to have a bit more house load capacity when away from shore power and not running the Yanmar. That is why I’m looking at using two 6-volt 232-AH batteries in series to make the house bank into 12-volts and 232-AH. This new setup should provide 50% of 232-AH = 116-AH for house loads.
· The three battery boxes are mounted on a platform under the cockpit, amidships just aft of the Yanmar, above the stuffing box and immediately in front of the fuel tank. Overhead clearance is about 16” from the platform but the space is limited to two Group-24 or two golf cart batteries plus the group-24 starting backup battery. Access is reasonable from the port side and the fluid level could be checked with a mirror but I would have to pull the starboard and centre batteries out to add distilled water unless I add the watering system that is often used on golf carts. That is why I chose to use two AGM batteries when I bought her a few years ago.

 

[AtlanticAl]

Its not necessarily that both batteries have gone, what can happen, is one battery goes, and drains the power from the other, the battery that has gone, draws power, and puts it off in heat. When you sepperate those batteries, you find you have one that works very well. what you should do is check the temprature (with your hand, not with a themometer) of both batteries when they are workin, and switched toghether, if one is hot, that is the duff battery.

 

[Benny17441]

You are correct at 12V the AH capacity will remain the same. You seem to have your bases covered so go for it.

 

[Ed Schenck]

A "few bucks"?! Is your cost of $150. for one 6v battery or two? My 6-volt DuraCells are 235aH at $78.00 each. I'd spend an entire day to save $140.00. Four hours drive at 15 mpg still saves you $100.

 

[Jalepeno]

Ed, thank you for the input but the time formula is ((2½ hr/drive + ½ hr/Seattle traffic) x 2/return) + (2hrs/US border delay + ½ hr/Canadian border delay)) = 8 ½ or more hours total. That is a full day for the return trip. The drive is about 130 miles each way. That means a full tank of gas for the round trip for about $70 in Canada or $50 in the US. Maybe if I was retired, but my time can be better spent generating revenue for my company.

Thanks to all that responded. I just bought two US-2200-XC batteries at a local wholesale supplier for $119 Canadian funds each + tax.

 

[Maine Sail]

Thanks to all that responded. I just bought two US-2200-XC batteries at a local wholesale supplier for $119 Canadian funds each + tax.

That's not too bad. My wholesale cost is around $87.00 IIRC in the states plus core charge...

 

[Jalepeno]

We have no "core charge" or "environmental fee" here in B.C. and they will give me $7 for each of my old batteries. Lead prices must be high these days.

 

[mitiempo]

Where I buy batteries in Victoria there is a core charge. $12 unless you return an old battery.

There is also a Government of B.C. Environmental Levy - it may be included in the price but by law it is there. http://www.rev.gov.bc.ca/documents_library/bulletins/sst_015.pdf

 

[Jalepeno]

Hi mitiempo
Have a look at www.batteriesandmore.ca for Phil’s Batteries & More Inc. in Surrey or call them at 604-588-7445. A boating friend recommended them and with Maine Sail ‘s comments and the good price, I bought two US2200 batteries earlier today. My invoice is for $119.90 each plus HST. This is a sale price for in-stock inventory only. No other charges are listed or paid for. Also you will see on their site that they will buy your used lead acid batteries for lead recycling and to keep the sulphuric acid out of the illicit drug manufacturer’s hands. They said that the environmental fee was removed when the HST came into effect last year.

The next best prices for the US2200 are at Federal in Richmond at $140 and at Steveston Marine also in Richmond at $150.
The T-105 prices I found locally were Polar in Vancouver at $160, Battery World in Vancouver at $160 and Lordco in Richmond at $185.
s/v Jalepeno

 

[mitiempo]

I guess the Environmental fee will return when the HST disappears then. The link I posted was older.

That is a good price. But there is a core charge locally, not by law but dealers I guess. I buy a fair number of batteries for customers.

 

[Gary_H]

Jalepeno, I have the same boat and can barely fit to group 24s on the battery platform. did you build some type of extension to mount the third battery?

 

[Jalepeno]

Hi Gary_H,

My 1979 CAL 2-25 (aka CAL 25 mk II) has a Yanmar YSM-12. The usually motor is a YSM-8. I don’t know the history behind the YSM-12. The larger motor is a bit wider and the under sink cupboard liner has been removed to gain access to the port side of the motor. The original fuel tank platform (slightly tilted forward) is located between the hull stringers running aft from around the shaft log and with about 16” clearance below the cockpit deck at the front of the tank. A previous owner had added a plywood extension that abuts the port side hull form. The original setup had two group-24 batteries oriented for/aft in front of the original aluminium fuel tank. I shifted the two battery boxes as far to starboard as they would go and added a third on the port side.

The aluminium fuel tank developed a pinhole leak so I replaced with a Moeller # 032519, 19-gal (70-litre) UHMW plastic tank in 2009. It was a very tight to get the new fuel filler hose to fit due to the limited headroom. I used a felt pen to mark the translucent tank in litres. Due to the slight platform tilt, the tank can only hold about 65-litres, of which only about 60-litres are usable because of the lack of internal baffles. Fuel consumption is about 2-litres per hour at 2600-rpm cruising speed ro about 30 hours of motor-sailing at an aveage of around 5+ kts.

The battery boxes and the fuel tank are properly attached to the platform and I screwed wooden dividers to further inhibit anything from shifting. The platform extension also holds two large storage tots that just fit through the 11” wide hatch opening. I also extended the port side platform vertical base forward to the rear engine mounts. This allows items such as spare fuel, spare anchor & rode, etc. to be stored in the area just aft of the galley bulkhead with out having to worry about them coming in contact with the propeller shaft.

I don’t have any pictures at this time but I hope you can visualise the setup.

s/v Jalepeno