Is it possible to remove the Hirst transmission from my 310 without pulling the engine? I've done some preliminary work in "exposing the patient". It looks like if I open the shaft coupler the shaft can slide back about 2.3 inches before the coupler flange hits the packing gland nut. Will this be enough to back the transmission out of the engine?
Hirth transmission removal
- Thread starter oldguy
- Start date
- Status
I recently removed my Hurth transmission but I did lift the engine about 6". Was able to leave many (but not all) of the connections connected.
Used a 4x4 layed across the open hatch and then a $20 Come-Along and a dock line connected to the engine lift points.
We also removed the bulkhead behind the motor. Wasn't really that difficult and it definitely made the removal of the old and installation of the new transmission much easier.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Jim
Used a 4x4 layed across the open hatch and then a $20 Come-Along and a dock line connected to the engine lift points.
We also removed the bulkhead behind the motor. Wasn't really that difficult and it definitely made the removal of the old and installation of the new transmission much easier.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Jim
Attachments
Yes, you can, but as you said, it's tight. You can do a search here and on other Catalina forums using "HURTH" and find out what others have done. The Catalina 36 skippers seem to have had the most issues with H50 (H5?) units, www.c36ia.org, join their forum for free, or become an associate member with more access to their archives beyond their forum; great bunch of guys if you can't get info elsewhere.
My mom told me spelling counts. Most internet guys say no. I say it still does. Why? For searching.
Good luck, from what I've read, it's very do-able.
My mom told me spelling counts. Most internet guys say no. I say it still does. Why? For searching.
Good luck, from what I've read, it's very do-able.
You can, if ...
When I replaced my damper plate the teeth on the old plate were worn enough I was able to slide it out. With the new damper plate in place, I had to pull the engine up about 3" so I could get the transmission in on enough of an angle to get it back in.
When I replaced my damper plate the teeth on the old plate were worn enough I was able to slide it out. With the new damper plate in place, I had to pull the engine up about 3" so I could get the transmission in on enough of an angle to get it back in.
Thanks to all for the replies.
I got it out ok. Toughest was loosening the shaft coupler bolts.
Opening the bell housing seems a lot tougher, so I'm inclined not to do that. What happened was sudden onset of excessive vibration while underway and in gear (not in neutral). Also "sticking' in gear. The problems seemed intermittent. The Hurth looks and feels fine now that it's out. fluid looks ok and shifts ok. So I guess I'll just look for replacement because there definitely was a problem and it wasn't with the linkage.. Any suggestions here? I read somewhere that the ZF6M or the ZF10M were better replacements than the original (which looks like HBW type). Are the bolt hole patterns compatible on these other units?
So I might have to lift the engine to insert the new spline shaft, but I hope not. Thanks to Jim for the really great pics. I would have been nervous about putting the engine weight on the overhead companionway, but it looks like it worked fine.
You are a great group of helpful guys.
I got it out ok. Toughest was loosening the shaft coupler bolts.
Opening the bell housing seems a lot tougher, so I'm inclined not to do that. What happened was sudden onset of excessive vibration while underway and in gear (not in neutral). Also "sticking' in gear. The problems seemed intermittent. The Hurth looks and feels fine now that it's out. fluid looks ok and shifts ok. So I guess I'll just look for replacement because there definitely was a problem and it wasn't with the linkage.. Any suggestions here? I read somewhere that the ZF6M or the ZF10M were better replacements than the original (which looks like HBW type). Are the bolt hole patterns compatible on these other units?
So I might have to lift the engine to insert the new spline shaft, but I hope not. Thanks to Jim for the really great pics. I would have been nervous about putting the engine weight on the overhead companionway, but it looks like it worked fine.
You are a great group of helpful guys.
Before you purchase a new unit check to see that you did not break an motor mount? That would do what you are describing also. It's to late to check shaft alignment.
I am assuming you saw the other thread from my transmission replacement from about 2 months ago. I got my parts from a truck/marine diesel shop and asked for a ZF6M but they made some calls to somebody (not sure who) and the ZF10 was recommended as "same size but stronger/sturdier". So bought and installed ZF10 transmission.
Got a different damper plate as well...can't think of the brand at the moment but it is in the other thread from back in early June.
Everything seems to be working very well and I use my boat a lot...4-5 times per week with probably 3-4 hours of motoring per week.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Jim
Got a different damper plate as well...can't think of the brand at the moment but it is in the other thread from back in early June.
Everything seems to be working very well and I use my boat a lot...4-5 times per week with probably 3-4 hours of motoring per week.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Jim
We tried to remove the prop shaft coupler as well but were unable to remove it. Using a tool like a steering wheel puller was recommended. But by lifting the engine we were able to get the ZF10 installed without too much difficulty.
The hardest part about putting everything back together was reinstalling the supports for the heat exchanger.
We did replace several hoses during this job. Mostly from being old and having cracks or weak spots from rubbing.
Cheers,
Jim
The hardest part about putting everything back together was reinstalling the supports for the heat exchanger.
We did replace several hoses during this job. Mostly from being old and having cracks or weak spots from rubbing.
Cheers,
Jim
You need to replace the damper.. look at the input spline shaft of the transmission the leading edge is quit worn. The pic of the collar are not clear enough to tell, but if there is any play it will just chew up the new transmission. You have it this far, do it right, or you will (or someone else) will have to do it again, sooner.
If the new transmission is an inch longer than the old, did you remove the shaft and have it recut? Wouldn't that push the prop out 1 inch further from the strut if you didn't?
Mainesail had a decent system for removing the shaft coupling that involved making a blank plate to help push the shaft out.
I plan to do a bunch of similar things this winter: new damper plate, new motor mounts, either new shaft log hose or dripless, etc. During this work I just plan to cut the shaft. It's bronze and did have some damage from the old packing during my last repacking. I would much rather have a good SS shaft.
continuing saga
well the new tranny is in and the motor back on its mounts.. before I read Witzend advice to change the damper.. think I'll wait till end of season to do that out of the water... I'm under some pressure to get off my temp slip and back on my mooring.
all went pretty smoothly, using the 4X4 and come-a-long technique.. Thanks c130King.
When it was in the air (about 3") it was swinging a bit.. I am on outside slip with some ocean swell.. so I dropped it on the bed about 3" forward of the mounts and the new Hurth went in easily.
Hardest part (so far) was positioning the swinging engine over the mounts while dropping it in back place. did it by tying engine back off of exhaust can with a light line to hold it sort of in place and doing final maneuver with knees.. it worked.
As to inch longer problem.. I don't think it is a problem. The coupler is now 1" further back. Because of the engine mounting angle this put it about 1/8" lower, so I had to raise the engine a bit to get proper shaft alignment. yes the prop is 1" further back in the water, but I don't think this matters. The prop turns freely even when the coupler was all the way back against the packing gland.
still have close up work to do.. heat exchanger, linkage, hoses, etc.
here are some pics of the operation.
well the new tranny is in and the motor back on its mounts.. before I read Witzend advice to change the damper.. think I'll wait till end of season to do that out of the water... I'm under some pressure to get off my temp slip and back on my mooring.
all went pretty smoothly, using the 4X4 and come-a-long technique.. Thanks c130King.
When it was in the air (about 3") it was swinging a bit.. I am on outside slip with some ocean swell.. so I dropped it on the bed about 3" forward of the mounts and the new Hurth went in easily.
Hardest part (so far) was positioning the swinging engine over the mounts while dropping it in back place. did it by tying engine back off of exhaust can with a light line to hold it sort of in place and doing final maneuver with knees.. it worked.
As to inch longer problem.. I don't think it is a problem. The coupler is now 1" further back. Because of the engine mounting angle this put it about 1/8" lower, so I had to raise the engine a bit to get proper shaft alignment. yes the prop is 1" further back in the water, but I don't think this matters. The prop turns freely even when the coupler was all the way back against the packing gland.
still have close up work to do.. heat exchanger, linkage, hoses, etc.
here are some pics of the operation.
Attachments
The spline-damper collar interface needs to be spot on, so limit the idling when ever possible, or you will wear the new spline. I would have changed those engine mounts. The prop will now be an inch further aft of the strut bearing, this can add to potential instability.
I hear you.. I'm a little worried.. Everything back together and seems to run fine so far. I got a better slip and I may just repeat the whole operation with new motor mounts and new damper... at least now all the bolts are clean and shiny and all will come apart easily.
can't do anything about the shaft until the boat is hauled. do you really think 1" will affect stability? Vibration seems about the same as it always was.. vibrates a bit at 800 rpm but pretty smooth at 1000.
So I have decided that there is too much backlash and chatter in the new Hurth installation, which is surely due to the interface between the spline shaft and the old damper plate.. so the damper plate is coming out. It looks like I have two choices:
the Westerbeke damper from Discount Marine for $395 or the Sachs 1866 061 001 from Sachs North America for $171. The Westerbeke has a polymer damper and the Sachs unit uses springs. My instincts tell me that the polymer will be quieter but the springs may last longer. Any advice out there? It's a significant price difference.
the Westerbeke damper from Discount Marine for $395 or the Sachs 1866 061 001 from Sachs North America for $171. The Westerbeke has a polymer damper and the Sachs unit uses springs. My instincts tell me that the polymer will be quieter but the springs may last longer. Any advice out there? It's a significant price difference.
I went with the Sachs. I also pushed my shaft 1" aft to get everything to fit.
Have put almost 50 hours of running time on my motor since the repair 2 months ago and everything seems to be running fine.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Jim
Have put almost 50 hours of running time on my motor since the repair 2 months ago and everything seems to be running fine.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Jim
What ever you do, don't go with the R&D ribbon design, much too stiff and everyone who has gone through this repair had the R&D in it fail. I used the Sachs 1866-050-002, nice and soft, but won't fit your flywheel if you had the R&D, which I suspect you have.
is this the R&D design? there are no markings on it. it looks just like the pictures of the Westerbeke 044624 sold by discount marine (http://www.discountmarinesource.com/p-9309-westerbeke-damper-hbw-044624.aspx). here is the picture of the Sachs 1866 061 001 that Jim apparently used http://www.findpart.org/part/sac-1866061001
- Status